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US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

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Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#91

Post by tick_tock_tick »

danpalmer wrote: post #18
lxgr wrote: post #8

So Apple will be collecting 27% (instead of 30%) for... what exactly? They might just get away with something as crass in a vacuum, but given that the DMA will go into effect very soon, there will be a point of reference in a similar economy, and I don't think it'll be pretty for Apple. US regulators (federal or state; I could see something equivalent to GDPR and CCPA) will be taking a very close look.

> So Apple will be collecting 27% (instead of 30%) for... what exactly? Off the top of my head... - Bandwidth - Running the App Store for users - Marketing the App Store - App review - Security efforts to keep malware off the store - Making App Store optimisation tools for developers There's a lot of moving parts to this. You could argue that none of this is necessary if you sideload, but distribution is worth a lot…

So basically nothing that companies couldn't do themselves if Apple didn't explicitly block it. You pay 27% for fuck all.

> distribution is worth a lot in general to businesses

No, digital distribution is worth so little it rounds to $0.

> App Store is a good distribution channel in many ways

It's the only distribution channel allowed so of course it's the "best" there is no competition allowed.

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#92

Post by LeafItAlone »

ncallaway wrote: post #81
karmasimida wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I found myself actually able to use browser to purchase Kindle books on iPhone now, is it because of this lawsuit?

No, in a regular browser you can make purchases on Amazon like normal. If you attempt to purchase a kindle book from within the kindle app, you will not be able to. Nor will there be any messaging explaining how to make a purchase (because apple does not allow such messaging). You’ll just be mysteriously confused about why you can’t buy a book.

Why can I buy an Audible audiobook directly in the app on iOS (and for cheaper than listed on Amazon), but not a Kindle book?

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#94

Post by rstupek »

danpalmer wrote: post #18
lxgr wrote: post #8

So Apple will be collecting 27% (instead of 30%) for... what exactly? They might just get away with something as crass in a vacuum, but given that the DMA will go into effect very soon, there will be a point of reference in a similar economy, and I don't think it'll be pretty for Apple. US regulators (federal or state; I could see something equivalent to GDPR and CCPA) will be taking a very close look.

> So Apple will be collecting 27% (instead of 30%) for... what exactly? Off the top of my head... - Bandwidth - Running the App Store for users - Marketing the App Store - App review - Security efforts to keep malware off the store - Making App Store optimisation tools for developers There's a lot of moving parts to this. You could argue that none of this is necessary if you sideload, but distribution is worth a lot…

You can probably include development of SDKs and documentation as well.

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#95

Post by throwaway2037 »

lxgr wrote: post #8

So Apple will be collecting 27% (instead of 30%) for... what exactly? They might just get away with something as crass in a vacuum, but given that the DMA will go into effect very soon, there will be a point of reference in a similar economy, and I don't think it'll be pretty for Apple. US regulators (federal or state; I could see something equivalent to GDPR and CCPA) will be taking a very close look.

DMA: I had to look it up. For others: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Markets_Act

online search engines (e.g. Google Search);

online intermediation services (e.g. Google Play Store, Apple's App Store);

social networks (e.g. Facebook);

video sharing platforms (e.g. YouTube);

communication platforms (e.g. WhatsApp, Gmail);

advertising services (e.g. Google Ads);

operating systems (e.g. Android, iOS);

cloud services (e.g. Amazon Web Services).[4] >>

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#97

Post by clarle »

MobileVet wrote: post #56

I am curious if any businesses operating with the ‘pay Apple their cut’ on outside sales actually do? Does Apple have the manpower to chase every developer for that fee? Do they really expect to collect it or is it more of a threat? Any HN people with first hand knowledge of a business paying that fee?

It is more for the other bigger corporations that will have more to lose, and will be flagged via outside auditors, that will pay it accurately.

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#98

Post by mindwok »

jacquesm wrote: post #90
aaomidi wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Victim blaming and expects a mass market behavior change is not good, or realistic.

Victims don't normally collaborate with their abuser. edit: here's one of the 'victims': https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39022303

Actually yes, they do. That's what makes it abusive - the victim doesn't have the power, control, or will, to simply walk away.

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#99

Post by nicoburns »

jacquesm wrote: post #82
bradgessler wrote: post #54

Am I getting this right? Say I use Stripe as my payment processor. Stripe takes 2.9% + $0.30, then Apple takes 27% so I'm at 29.9% + $0.30 being taken out of however much I charge for my app? For a $10 app, $0.30 is 3% putting the fee at 32.9%. For the privilege of paying 2.9% more, my users get to see a scary privacy message and when I bill the customer a year later for a subscription, there's a 20-30% chance that t…

Oh absolutely it is. But all app store developers are complicit in enabling that monopoly. What should happen is that all app store developers withdraw their apps until Apple sees the light. But that won't happen because every app store developer will be pitted against their competition in a race to the bottom who will accept the highest fees that Apple is going to impose and sooner or later you'll be back at that 30…

What should happen is that governments regulate these policies out of existence (or into sensibility). We already do this for things like credit card processing fees (in Europe) and it works well.

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#100

Post by [deleted] »

judge2020 wrote: post #75
radley wrote: post #39

There's a strong chance this will be shot down as "bad-faith" compliance. Rumor is Epic will quickly contest it [Update: confirmed] https://twitter.com/timsweeneyepic/status/174740814726057173...

It'll probably need to be another lawsuit since it's in the developer agreement. Via user lolinder ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39020745 ): > Apple is already pretty clear in its developer agreement [0] that the 30% commission is for "its services as Your agent and/or commissionaire" (Schedule 2 3.4), not for its services as a payment processor. They are contractually allowed to take the 30% fee out of paym…

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