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EU NGI TALER will bring private and secure online payments to the Eurozone

taler.net

41–50 of 146 posts

Re: EU NGI TALER will bring private and secure online payments to the Eurozone

#41

If I could rig my browser to pay 1 cent for every newspaper article I read, I would happily do so. The biggest issue with paying for news is that you are reduced to a small handful of sources. I would like to read a couple of articles from a hundred sources, not a hundred articles from one source. Not sure this platform solves the problem, but it would be a game changer if it did.

Yeah, it's weird that no one ever made that model work. I think it was tried?

Re: EU NGI TALER will bring private and secure online payments to the Eurozone

#42
post #18

My question is: How does the average Jane and Joe benefits compared to Debit and Credit Cards? Privacy, they do not care. Being anonymous, they do not care. So a dead initiative?

Anecdotally, privacy is actually something that people care about today. I used to think that it was mostly software geeks that cared about privacy, but during the past few years there's been so much discussion about various privacy issues, as well as discussions in my community etc.

Young people in particular care way more about privacy that us older people. In fact, young people feel way more anxiety around things that are tied to your identity.

But even despite them, I feel like even in my extended family privacy issues are increasingly very important to people. Everybody knows somebody who has been scammed.. even lost a great amount of money.

Your average user is caring more and more about security and privacy.

Re: being anonymous, I don't know. I suspect the anonymity part is more related to privacy for most people.

The other benefits of this of course is that you can make your own payment system and integration, and you won't need to be dependent upon VISA/Mastercard for your payments. Cheaper transaction fees ultimately helps lower product prices, enables microtransactions and more - I wouldn't discount how much of a big deal this would be.

I'm sure once they've finalized the whole thing, Misa/Vastercard will have employed their lobbying powers to the fullest to inject themselves into the final spec, but here's hoping.

Re: EU NGI TALER will bring private and secure online payments to the Eurozone

#43
post #16
post #2

[flagged]

No it's not. GNU Taler doesn't use a blockchain, as a blockchain cannot implement digital cash: in a blockchain, transactions are necessarily centralized — on a distributed ledger, but still account-based —, so they are effectively equivalent to wire transfer, i.e., just accounting entries: they cannot take place between two offline parties like you can do with actual cash. Also, blockchain-based digital "money" (quo…

> blockchain-based digital "money"

> quotes because there is no such thing, "cryptocurrencies" are purely speculative securities

Fellow gold money user in the thread?

Re: EU NGI TALER will bring private and secure online payments to the Eurozone

#44

As an aside, the taler (or thaler) is an old German-and-surrounding-regions coin that’s the root etymology for the word “dollar”.

And the word thaler is a shortened version of Joachimsthaler. Joachimsthal was the place where the silver for the coins was mined. And the second part of that, thal, is cognate with English dale.

Re: EU NGI TALER will bring private and secure online payments to the Eurozone

#45
This is exciting news.

GNU Taler has been in development since 2014 (10 years now!). I'm very happy to see European Commision's interest in this privacy-protecting technology. Along with GNU Net and GNU Social (amongst others), it seems like one of those technologies that have a huge potential to make internet a better place for everyone.

While many consider GNU projects to be vaporware with development pace of a turtle, it seems that the turtle is slowly starting to lead the race. GNU Hurd has also had significant news lately [0]. I'm feeling really hopeful about this, especially after the somewhat recent RMS lynching campaign that was lead by major corporations.

[0] https://www.gnu.org/software/hurd/news/2023-q4.html

Re: EU NGI TALER will bring private and secure online payments to the Eurozone

#46
My impression (which might be unfair since I haven't used the Taler system) is that this looks like a technically better but practically worse version of payment systems which already exist in parts of Europe like the Polish Blik, Swedish Swish, Norwegian Vipps and the one they have in the Netherlands (I forgot the name of that one).

In "the real world" I really don't want to be dealing with a wallet of electronic cash stored on my computer. What I want to be able to do is relatively seamlessly pay for a curry or send my friend some money I owe them or something.

Re: EU NGI TALER will bring private and secure online payments to the Eurozone

#47

People should know that 1. it's not based on any kind of blockchain, 2. it's not a currency, it's a payment system which you could use to transfer other currencies (euro, dollar, ...) and 3. unlike most blockchain-based currencies it offers anonymity (only for buyers, not for sellers, though)

Indeed, GNU Taler doesn't use a blockchain, as a blockchain cannot actually implement digital cash. In a blockchain, transactions are necessarily centralized — on a distributed ledger maintained using a peer-to-peer protocol, but the transactions themselves are still account-based —, so they are effectively equivalent to wire transfers, i.e., just accounting entries: they cannot take place between two offline parties like you can do with actual cash. Also, blockchain-based digital "money" (quotes because there is no such thing, "cryptocurrencies" are purely speculative securities and that's it) need to be at the same time the currency, the long-term storage, and the transaction system.

On the contrary, GNU Taler is only a transaction system as you said, and uses advanced cryptography (double blind signatures) and infrastructure that allow it to be bearer-based, i.e., actually decentralized transactions between two offline parties can take place. Taler can actually do digital cash, with buyers privacy, and auditability and taxability of sellers.

Re: EU NGI TALER will bring private and secure online payments to the Eurozone

#48
From looking at the GNU Taler FAQ[1], making “p2p” payments still needs to go through the exchange, and the exchanges need to be independently audited to ensure compliance.

Ok. So, privacy?

Given that the system ultimately relies on centralized actors, it can only be private for payment amounts below any applicable travel rule amount in the given jurisdiction.

[1] https://taler.net/en/faq.html

Re: EU NGI TALER will bring private and secure online payments to the Eurozone

#49
post #36
post #18

My question is: How does the average Jane and Joe benefits compared to Debit and Credit Cards? Privacy, they do not care. Being anonymous, they do not care. So a dead initiative?

I absolutely care about privacy. Also, if I can pay the kebab shop with less fee with my phone(hopefully) rather than them putting up a note that “only cash”(because CC charges large fees), it’ll be an immediate win for me to avoid carrying wallet full of heavy coins and cash everywhere like medieval times.

If you believe that kebab shops, or any shops, that put up such signs are really about card fees then I have bridge to sell you...

Re: EU NGI TALER will bring private and secure online payments to the Eurozone

#50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...and, as quoted by sunshine_reggae, lower transaction costs.

as an average joe on the consumer end I don't care about transaction costs. at least here in germany that's the vendor's problem.

Especially while having to pay 19-25% VAT on most purchases...
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