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Most STEM grads don't work in STEM jobs

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Re: Most STEM grads don't work in STEM jobs

#131

Post by Grimblewald »

legerdemain wrote: post #120
NanoYohaneTSU wrote: post #83

Extremely poor journalism. Very misleading and a misunderstanding of what's actually going on. Example: "The Census Bureau reported in 2021 that a paltry 28% of STEM grads are working in these supposedly in-demand, highly paid and important STEM jobs." It's not 28% of all STEM grads, it's 28% of physical science STEM grads. https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2021/06/does-majoring... I'm going to do a better job t…

> Extremely poor journalism... some shmuck journo... This is a guest opinion column by a book author to promote a book. All of these facts are very visibly stated on the page, including the word OPINION (in all caps at the top of the page), the author's professional bio, and the title of the book being promoted.

It being an opinion doesn't excuse it for being half formed from half digested information.

Re: Most STEM grads don't work in STEM jobs

#132

Post by hotpotamus »

Animats wrote: post #122
0763e39aa wrote: post #89

Anyone can get into a college program (and anyone does); one has to self-select into the "rigorous" fields of study to attempt to signal intelligence. What used to require a HS diploma now requires a college degree and so forth. Humanities are now just a dumping ground for morons when they used to be the smartest people on the campus.

> Humanities are now just a dumping ground for morons when they used to be the smartest people on the campus. It's hard. An old friend of mine was a music major. Masters in music from Harvard, majoring in early music. Read and wrote Latin and Greek. Read and wrote early music notations. Could play a wide range early instruments. Never got a job that used those skills. Died recently, forgotten, in a Maryland suburb, h…

All of us will be forgotten sooner or later, and sooner for the vast majority. While it wouldn't be for me, I can see a lifetime spent studying music would be more meaningful to some than building an app toolkit. I'm not naive enough to say that money isn't important, but it's not everything either.

Re: Most STEM grads don't work in STEM jobs

#133

Post by snakeyjake »

linuxftw wrote: post #130
snakeyjake wrote: post #76

I feel like I'm living in a parallel universe. My company has approximately 1,000 open positions for engineers. Not "build a website" or "use AI to sell ads" engineer but "build a TX tuner for spaceborne synthetic aperture radar from scratch" engineer. We don't grant massive quantities of stock as part of a get rich quick lottery scheme, but I make over 3x the current US annual household income in an area where a 4 b…

1000 open positions? They should hire people for work/study programs, train them, pay for their education, and then they'll have a pipeline of engineers they so desire. Unfortunately, companies think they can skip investing in their people and expect people to spend $100k+ just for the privilege of applying to some company that doesn't respect their work/life balance and wants to pay them $50k/yr to start. Hard pass.

They should hire people for work/study programs, WE DO

train them, WE DO I started over a decade ago as a technical writer and am now a senior principal engineer.

pay for their education, WE DO I had to get a degree and the company paid for almost all of it. They flexed my schedule and looked the other way when I slacked off due to fatigue because I was a single parent of three daughters at the time. Any cert I want, any conference I want, any class I want- gets paid for. Gratis (except owing them time).

and then they'll have a pipeline of engineers they so desire. WE DON'T

Highschool work study participants are paid $34.62/hr which is $72k full time, which is just below what techs earn. College engineering interns are paid more. New hires even more.

Also highschool work study participants are given full benefits. Have you ever tried to explain health insurance and 401k to a 17-year-old?

Like I said, I feel like I'm living in a parallel dimension.

I do not know where people work.

I do know that if you're a god damned receptionist at my company or any of our competi-mates and you say "hmmm.. can I take some classes to try to get more technical" they will throw wheelbarrows full of cash at you. They will give you WAAAAAY past the non-taxable benefit for education and then give you a raise or bonus to cover the taxes.

Re: Most STEM grads don't work in STEM jobs

#134

Post by spacemadness »

linuxftw wrote: post #130
snakeyjake wrote: post #76

I feel like I'm living in a parallel universe. My company has approximately 1,000 open positions for engineers. Not "build a website" or "use AI to sell ads" engineer but "build a TX tuner for spaceborne synthetic aperture radar from scratch" engineer. We don't grant massive quantities of stock as part of a get rich quick lottery scheme, but I make over 3x the current US annual household income in an area where a 4 b…

1000 open positions? They should hire people for work/study programs, train them, pay for their education, and then they'll have a pipeline of engineers they so desire. Unfortunately, companies think they can skip investing in their people and expect people to spend $100k+ just for the privilege of applying to some company that doesn't respect their work/life balance and wants to pay them $50k/yr to start. Hard pass.

Kind of a weird reply. What it sounds like they need is an EE with experience in radio/comms. That’s a rare skillset these days. I’m not sure why that’s rage worthy.

Re: Most STEM grads don't work in STEM jobs

#136

Post by vba616 »

NanoYohaneTSU wrote: post #83

Extremely poor journalism. Very misleading and a misunderstanding of what's actually going on. Example: "The Census Bureau reported in 2021 that a paltry 28% of STEM grads are working in these supposedly in-demand, highly paid and important STEM jobs." It's not 28% of all STEM grads, it's 28% of physical science STEM grads. https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2021/06/does-majoring... I'm going to do a better job t…

I'm sure that the census and other researchers make a valiant attempt at distinguishing technical and scientific roles, but I don't think it's possible.

How can you determine that a something something service analyst at a random non "tech" company in Illinois is or isn't a programmer? If you don't identify an extremely technical position as a STEM job when it's not named in a particular way, then what are you counting?

Suppose someone does have an IT-related title, but they majored in biology and are working for a paper company in Pennsylvania in the HR department as a programmer. Should they be counted as using their degree? Are they?

What if you are counting employees of a large government organization and for obscure reasons, they call everybody who touches a computer an "IT Specialist"? Then you might be vastly overcounting.

People who have exactly the same title and work in the same small department, even, can differ wildly in their actual roles, too.

Re: Most STEM grads don't work in STEM jobs

#138

Post by 1vuio0pswjnm7 »

NanoYohaneTSU wrote: post #83

Extremely poor journalism. Very misleading and a misunderstanding of what's actually going on. Example: "The Census Bureau reported in 2021 that a paltry 28% of STEM grads are working in these supposedly in-demand, highly paid and important STEM jobs." It's not 28% of all STEM grads, it's 28% of physical science STEM grads. https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2021/06/does-majoring... I'm going to do a better job t…

The article is just paraphrasing what is reported on the census.gov page.

As such, we are being told (mislead) by an HN commenter that the Census Bureau is incapable of summarising their own data.

From census.gov:

https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2021/06/does-majoring...

"Among the 50 million employed college graduates ages 25 to 64 in 2019, 37% reported a bachelor's degree in science or engineering but only 14% worked in a STEM occupation, according to the Census Bureau's 2019 American Community Survey 1-year estimates.

This translates into less than a third (28%) of STEM-educated workers actually working in a STEM job.

The vast majority (62%) of college-educated workers who majored in a STEM field were employed in non-STEM fields such as non-STEM management, law, education, social work, accounting or counseling."

The graduates who did not major in science were more likely to end up in a STEM job. (The term "science" as used here, by me, excludes "computer science".)

"About half of workers who majored in engineering (52%) or computer, mathematics, and statistics majors (51%) worked in STEM."

Why don't more "S" grads work in "TEM" jobs.

Perhaps there are actually less "TEM" jobs than some folks believe.

Re: Most STEM grads don't work in STEM jobs

#139

Post by ajdjueiznc »

wharvle wrote: post #7

> The Census Bureau reported in 2021 that a paltry 28% of STEM grads are working in these supposedly in-demand, highly paid and important STEM jobs. These include diverse sectors such as pharmaceuticals, chemicals and energy, but about half of STEM jobs are in computers, and tech firms typically complain the loudest of STEM shortages. I’ve long suspected that the whole “STEM” education movement is a way for big tech…

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