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US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

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Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#361
post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again. If the web was invented today browsers would never be allowed on the App Store. Not even a dumbed down version without advanced scripting capabilities. The fact that they have a browser and allow “3p browsers” is only because the web was already established and customers wouldn’t have bought in without it. iPhones and iPads are not general purpose computing devices. Not by…

I feel like a lot of people have forgotten that we had proprietary services before the web became a thing. E.g. Compuserve, Prodigy.

A lot of people never paid for or used those services even when they were in their hayday.

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But use of said IP is required because Apple forbids side-loading. Therefore Apple App store is a monopoly. So hopefully the court result will in the end help get the Apple App store shut down / opened up.

Even if you're side-loading, you're still using Apple IP. Every single framework and the OS itself up to the Mach OSS Kernel is Apple IP. It would be entirely unfeasible to run anything on an iPhone without some Apple IP. You'd be looking at an Asahi Linux for iPhone.

Their IP is baked into the hardware and circuits.

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But use of said IP is required because Apple forbids side-loading. Therefore Apple App store is a monopoly. So hopefully the court result will in the end help get the Apple App store shut down / opened up.

Some people think of the App Store as a bazaar that Apple runs on its property, and it’s a 15-30% charge to setup a tent and sell your wares. Others think of it as Apple’s general store where they carry your app as a product, and you pay 15-30% for a place on the shelf. The concept that Kroger (for instance) has a monopoly of customers in its own store is ridiculous. There are other stores, and other bazaars. What an…

Or that Apple APIs and SDKs are Apple writing at least half of everyone’s apps for them. They manufacture all the pieces, and people can arrange them differently. Playing Apple 30% is recognizing that a good chunk of the code running in any app is developed and maintained by Apple.

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why can I buy an Audible audiobook directly in the app on iOS (and for cheaper than listed on Amazon), but not a Kindle book?

You can't. You can use your credits from your subscription, but you cannot pay for a new audiobook in the app.

Yes you can. I just did. And it was cheaper than the listed price on web.

It’s a relatively recent feature (past year), but it’s possible.

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#365

Can someone give me the TLDR of this questions answer.. If I have a web based saas currently where I charge customers $300 a month.. if I were to make an iOS app for them to use, would apple want a % of that?

If you allow them to subscribe in the iOS app, then yes. Just don’t offer that option.

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>So, why is it okay to install whatever you want and pay for it directly on desktops, but on phones it is not? On desktop you have similar stores like Steam. The store takes a 30% cut from all sales on the platform and they require apps on the platform to use their payment processing so that they can take that cut. The difference between Windows and iOS here is that third party stores can be installed without being l…

> Steam. ... they require apps on the platform to use their payment processing That's not true at all. Steam literally lets you sell steam keys for your game from other stores, and takes no cut from those sales. https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/features/keys

It is true. Other stores are not your app.

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>So, why is it okay to install whatever you want and pay for it directly on desktops, but on phones it is not? On desktop you have similar stores like Steam. The store takes a 30% cut from all sales on the platform and they require apps on the platform to use their payment processing so that they can take that cut. The difference between Windows and iOS here is that third party stores can be installed without being l…

Steam has a literal button on your library's page to add any game you have already installed and the definitely don't charge you 27% to do that.

That button does not give that game a store page, a discussion form, etc. That is not what I am talking about.

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#368
post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not sure Epic actually has standing anymore. They did back when they were part of the developer program. If they can make their case that it is bad faith compliance as part of their original case before the Court goes “c’ya, we’re done here”, they might have something, but Apple revoked Epic’s membership for violating their terms in the developer program worldwide and at the conclusion of this lawsuit, Apple has…

IANAL, but at face value, that seems like it would be, well, quite insane? To emphasize, I've seen plenty of insane stuff in the legal system, but if the argument is basically that Epic doesn't have standing because Apple won't let them be in a position where they could have standing , yet they generally offer that position (dev program membership) to the public at large, that seems like some sort of Catch-22-ish nig…

Why can’t developers bring a class action lawsuit or someone else just open a case?

They did so in Cameron vs Apple and Google … and settled I believe !

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But use of said IP is required because Apple forbids side-loading. Therefore Apple App store is a monopoly. So hopefully the court result will in the end help get the Apple App store shut down / opened up.

Some people think of the App Store as a bazaar that Apple runs on its property, and it’s a 15-30% charge to setup a tent and sell your wares. Others think of it as Apple’s general store where they carry your app as a product, and you pay 15-30% for a place on the shelf. The concept that Kroger (for instance) has a monopoly of customers in its own store is ridiculous. There are other stores, and other bazaars. What an…

> The concept that Kroger (for instance) has a monopoly of customers in its own store is ridiculous. There are other stores, and other bazaars.

I'm not making the argument from a legal perspective, but from a reality perspective, I think that's a very poor analogy to the way operating systems (and "platforms" generally) work.

The very nature of operating systems is that they have much more control than a simple store. For example, if you want to switch from Kroger to Safeway, just go to Safeway. There are almost zero switching costs. I actually was strongly considering switching from Android to iPhone solely to get iMessage access (that's a whole different ball of Apple anti-competitiveness, but I digress...) But in the end, even after buying the iPhone, I decided to give it away as a Christmas gift because I just couldn't stomach how painful switching would be after a decade-plus history on Android: I'd lose all my Android apps, I'd lose all the easiest access to things that live in Google's ecosystem, I'd lose my day-to-day familiarity with my phone, etc. To be clear, I'm not saying that's impossible, but it's just a much higher burden that deciding to go to a different grocery store.

Note the government has often developed special laws for "platform businesses", for example railroads, telecoms, etc., understanding the unique positions these companies are in when it comes to controlling the larger economy. I wish they would regulate operating system platforms in a similar manner.

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"You're charging too much" seems unlikely to be the actual argument presented though. Something along the lines of the scare message, still not actually allowing it to be handled via in app flow like a first party payment, and intentionally making a 3rd party choice potentially impossible to compete vs a 1st party choice by arguably hiding part of the processing fee margin in the overall fee would be the kinds of arg…

I think the percentage charged is very relevant though. And the fact the developer is to hide the fee and not list it on the receipt (subscription: $10, Apple tax: $3) And the fact you cannot charge less for the same service if you sold it outside the platform (as you'd like to do as you didn't need to collect the Apple tax).

Honestly Apple does not act as an agent for companies that are known outside of the Appstore.

Netflix has an app, Netflix “is not” an app. Google Chrome, Airbnb, Epic, anyone who has spent marketing bucks promoting their service and providing a supporting app, was rather acting as a marketing agent for Apple than the opposite.

Apple’s new stance has no merit. We all understand it’s fair to participate in the funding of the Appstore, but it is a very bad defense.

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