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United finds loose bolts on plug doors during 737 Max 9 inspections

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Re: United finds loose bolts on plug doors during 737 Max 9 inspections

#181
post #105

There were only 2 possible causes of the incident, either the bolts had been replaced with bolts made from an inappropriate material, so they broke, or the bolts had not been assembled correctly, and they became loose. It appears that the latter is what happened. Perhaps those who did the assembly of the doors at Boeing did not use the right kind of washers that are needed to prevent the unscrewing of the bolts, or t…

You are assuming this is problem in the assembly and not in the design?

And you seem to be assuming that the problem is in the design and not the assembly...

The latter seems more likely.

Re: United finds loose bolts on plug doors during 737 Max 9 inspections

#182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>People at large simply cannot be bothered to care about anything People care deeply about a lot of things, just not this. And why should they? When you have every business decision made either by private equity or public companies with a focus only on the next 90 days it turns out everything goes to shit. Wages are stagnant. Wealth inequality is massive. Our society is sick. Issues like this will only increase. Our…

Random aside: I looked up an Acela ticket this morning. $1000 for a first class ticket from DC to BOS. 6.5 hours. Same flight first class with Delta this week is $850. Also 6 hours with layover. Blows my mind first class rail travel is as much as first class air travel.

Amtrak and plane tickets are priced differently. For each class of ticket, Amtrak has X seats at price A, Y seats at price B > A, Z seats at price C > B, etc. When you check prices or buy a ticket, it will offer you the cheapest remaining ticket in that class. If you book Amtrak early, you'll find it is significantly cheaper than a plane ticket. Wait until a week until departure, and usually the airplane will cost less.

Re: United finds loose bolts on plug doors during 737 Max 9 inspections

#183

It seems there's a sense of malaise falling over everything and everyone in the USA. People at large simply cannot be bothered to care about anything, including torque specs for freakin' AIRLINERS

The 'malaise' is the rot coming from uncurbed late-stage capitalism. Just about every single company only cares about short-term forecasts which leads to enshittification because there is no long-term planning or allowance for things like quality control. Privately-owned companies or worker-owned companies are more resilient to this problem because the nature of their existence means a stronger focus on long term goa…

“Show me the incentive and I will show you the outcome.”

Welcome to the outcome. When companies look at employees and employee training as an expense, and when the only way to improve your salary is to go to a new company, expect to see these companies to be hollowed out shells of untrained people.

Re: United finds loose bolts on plug doors during 737 Max 9 inspections

#185
post #87

There were only 2 possible causes of the incident, either the bolts had been replaced with bolts made from an inappropriate material, so they broke, or the bolts had not been assembled correctly, and they became loose. It appears that the latter is what happened. Perhaps those who did the assembly of the doors at Boeing did not use the right kind of washers that are needed to prevent the unscrewing of the bolts, or t…

Or the lock wire was left off or done incorrectly

Aren’t there multiple signoffs & inspections to see if the lock wire was being done correctly?

Re: United finds loose bolts on plug doors during 737 Max 9 inspections

#187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is hilarious, but I think we might be being a bit unfair. Why couldn't you use something a camera on eyeglasses while doing the work correctly to fine tune a multimodal model, and then infer to a user wearing the same glasses? Audio reply saying "nope, try again." You would need multiple frames per second, so not today, but not that far into the future, right? edit: Zero-shot, I just took photos of me "fixing th…

The reason why it's bad is that this is an overcomplicated process that introduces potentially unreliable bells and whistles for little upside. At the end of the day, there aren't fundamental issues with a trained employee following a checklist. Machine learning is extremely powerful but tons of issues can be solved in a straightforward algorithmic fashion, so we should really be using it where it could make a big di…

Thanks. I get it, and generally agree with your point here. Paying for good people and giving them enough time to get the job done is generally enough. I was just trying to be fair to op's question as devil's advocate. I don't think it should just be dismissed as a joke. I have always been a huge cryptocurrency skeptic, and I just don't see the same trajectory for ML.

So back in the day, Expert Systems were a big thing at Boeing. Searching Boeing's job openings today, it's a still a word used in hiring, but I don't understand what they mean by it in terms of manufacturing. Do you have any idea what they mean by that today?

Re: United finds loose bolts on plug doors during 737 Max 9 inspections

#188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It calls into question Boeing's entire portfolio because it's all a product of the same management culture.

It's a door design that dates back to the 707.

Sure, but Boeing’s current awful cost cutting management does not date back that far.

Re: United finds loose bolts on plug doors during 737 Max 9 inspections

#189

I've seen on Toyotas and also at Universal Studios bolts on rides are marked with paint presumably to indicate that the nut hasn't backed out. Are airliners marked in this way? Is checking the bolts simply a visual inspection, or do the inspectors need to get out a torque wrench?

common practice in manufacturing to use a paint pen on bolts in assembly lines to check and make sure nothing is backing out aftre maintenance/repair.
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