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NHS to investigate Palantir influencer campaign as possible contract breach

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Re: NHS to investigate Palantir influencer campaign as possible contract breach

#51
post #6

I just don't get it. NHS needs a big data platform so they go to a... spy tech company? Why are they so insistent that it must be Palantir that builds this, instead of choosing from a dozen of other consulting companies that don't have a dodgy track record? Ideally the NHS would just build it in house, but sadly it's a slow and bloated organisation unable to innovate (as most government managed things usually become)…

We currently have a Conservative government, and they hate the NHS. Anything they can do to sink the NHS or destroy its reputation and push people toward private healthcare is a win to them.

I wouldn't be surprised if this Palantir stuff involves an extremely onerous contract, and probably terms that the NHS cannot even afford long term, and the Tories knowingly entered into it any way.

Re: NHS to investigate Palantir influencer campaign as possible contract breach

#52
post #28
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As someone familiar with the USG data management tech landscape — it’s probably because it’s by far the best product with no remotely close second. That is sweetly naive, unless you are talking about their marketing department

Let me rephrase: I am extremely familiar with the USG data management tech landscape.

I'd love to know (in as much detail as you are allowed) what you feel the strengths and weaknesses of CHEETAS is.

Re: NHS to investigate Palantir influencer campaign as possible contract breach

#53
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ah meyers briggs, the tabloid astrology of the office worker.

I know someone who worked in finance HR for approx 20 years. Nearly every time the business hired someone who would have been identified as a poor fit by Meyers Briggs they wouldn't last 12 months.

I can see how that went:

* "ok, extrovert-feely, DJ this party and be quick about it!"

* "but the CEO said the quarterly results are due by EOD tomorrow!"

* "are you going to oppose the MBTI? you sure aren't a culture fit are you?"

edit1: formatting

edit2: the point of the above flippant story is that the 'test' marked a person for failure and made their departure a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Re: NHS to investigate Palantir influencer campaign as possible contract breach

#54
post #13

> Palantir’s Executive Vice President for UK and Europe, Louis Mosely If you're wondering, yes he is related to Oswald and Max

Of course Palantir could only be represented by the grand-son of the founder of the pre-WWII British Union of Fascists (and Holocaust Denialist post-war), and son to the famous president of the FIA and Formula 1 - who is also a racist publisher who liked to have nazi-themed orgies (and tried to silence any journal who published it). Really, Palantir's management couldn't have made a finest choice! Absolutely no under…

The purest culture fit.

Re: NHS to investigate Palantir influencer campaign as possible contract breach

#55
post #30
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole point of their enterprise is that they're attempting to clarify the law, often in particular directions. That can only be done by bringing test cases. A "positive result" comes in several forms there, namely that a) the case is not thrown out and b) they then get their desired result. Simply establishing that they're able to challenge in a particular way can also be a big deal. For example, while it wasn't…

> Our supreme court is young (est 2006 or so) This is not the case at all. The "Supreme Court" in the UK is the latest version of the UK's "court of last resort". Previous to this it was the House of Lords one would appeal to (it had functions to sit as UK's top court as well as the 2nd chamber). The House Of Lords was the Court of last resort for the UK since at least the 1800s. From the Wikipedia page on the "new"…

> Had Gina Miller's case been say 10-15 years earlier, the HoL would have heard and decided the case too - she did not need the existence of a "new" "Supreme Court".

The system of appointment to the SC is rather different to the HoL as it draws from the judiciary and merely being a Lord isn't enough. There was initial continuity in membership, but there has now been nearly two decades of divergence. The HoL was hereditary for much of its history as I'm sure you well know. It is of course now a house of political appointees, cronies, and people who have probably paid _someone_ to be in charge.

https://www.supremecourt.uk/about/appointments-of-justices.h... explains more about the system of appointments. It has an independent commission which makes the selections.

This is where the discontinuity occurs: the fact that as time goes by the judges of the SC are increasingly apolitical. That gives them more standing to make decisions independent of government, and also independent of the historic bias of the HoL (which has been majority Tory for rather a lot of its history).

The thinking goes that the fusion of the SC and HoL as was the case in the days of the Law Lords made the highest court a political one. The splitting of them in terms of form and personnel has fundamentally changed the character of the judgements we can expect. I'd have expected the old HoL to have gone against Miller, which is why I used her as an example.

It is worth noting that had the SC not been split from the HoL after life peerages became the majority of that house, we'd be in danger of those political appointees and the like being the basis of the court. It was therefore necessary and not a "rebrand".

Re: NHS to investigate Palantir influencer campaign as possible contract breach

#56

Pre IPO ex Palantir here. Palantir will do a number of things to gain influence. They'll find out who are the decision makers on the space they want a contract, and they'll target them specifically. For example: if they know you take the train to work every morning, and read the news paper, they'll take a full page advertisement on the paper they know you like and that you'll see. They gain this information by, you g…

As life imitates art, the lines between paranoid conspiracy theories and marketing campaigns continue to blur.

Re: NHS to investigate Palantir influencer campaign as possible contract breach

#57
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Must respectfully say that this company should not be allowed to exist. We are outsourcing state level powers to a completely opaque private entity with zero accountability. This can only end badly.

I agree with you, but every reason you just listed is a positive from the perspective of their customers. I think it's practically guaranteed that Palantir is, or will be, blackmailing officials. Even if they never do, any lucid official will be very conscious of stepping on the toes of a private intelligence company.

Or they can go the other direction and offer foreign powers protection for money.

The incentives are aligned that way so it would require surveillance and conspiracy to prevent it from happening.

Furthermore, collecting large amounts of information on your own population creates a lowest effort point of entry for an adversary to gather that info, and it's more useful to them.

Re: NHS to investigate Palantir influencer campaign as possible contract breach

#58
post #55
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Our supreme court is young (est 2006 or so) This is not the case at all. The "Supreme Court" in the UK is the latest version of the UK's "court of last resort". Previous to this it was the House of Lords one would appeal to (it had functions to sit as UK's top court as well as the 2nd chamber). The House Of Lords was the Court of last resort for the UK since at least the 1800s. From the Wikipedia page on the "new"…

> Had Gina Miller's case been say 10-15 years earlier, the HoL would have heard and decided the case too - she did not need the existence of a "new" "Supreme Court". The system of appointment to the SC is rather different to the HoL as it draws from the judiciary and merely being a Lord isn't enough. There was initial continuity in membership, but there has now been nearly two decades of divergence. The HoL was hered…

I practiced law in the UK during the transition; fundamentally they operate very similarly and the cases they hear are essentially identical. So much so, HoL decisions have equal precedential value. The UK did not gain some new level of appellate Court as a result of this change.

The rebrand to Supreme Court and change to appointment processes do indeed remove some of the risk of perception of political interference, but if you look at the historical operations of the HoL as an appelate Court in the last 80 years, political interference was much more a hypothetical problem than a real one - the HoL routinely passed decisions that greatly upset the ruling parties of the day, and the appointments of Law Lords was greatly removed from the appointments of rank and file life peers etc.

> The system of appointment to the SC is rather different to the HoL as it draws from the judiciary and merely being a Lord isn't enough.

The law lords where almost always drawn from the Judiciary too in modern history, sitting here right now I can't think of one who didn't have a very significant judicial career prior to becoming a law lord. The government was able to simply grant them a peerage permitting them to become a law lord, which is not 1000 miles removed from the Supreme Court's life-long appointments. The HoL required retirement at 75 for a Law Lord exactly the same as is expected for a new SC justice too.

> It is worth noting that had the SC not been split from the HoL after life peerages became the majority of that house, we'd be in danger of those political appointees and the like being the basis of the court. It was therefore necessary and not a "rebrand".

This is nonsense. Only the law lords sat on the court. It was not just "any" peer who could sit on the Court, of which there were only 12 members.

"To be appointed a Lord of Appeal in Ordinary under the 1876 Act, a person was required to have been a practising barrister for a period of fifteen years or to have held a high judicial office—as Lord Chancellor (before 2005) or judge of the Court of Appeal, High Court or Court of Session—for a period of two years. Lords of Appeal in Ordinary were required to retire from judicial office at 70 or 75 years of age, though as barons they continued to serve as members of the House of Lords in its legislative capacity for life."

> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lords_of_Appeal_in_Ordinary

There are many things that are arguably wrong/undesirable about an unelected second legislative chamber such as the HoL, but the operations of its Court were arguably one of its least egregious short-comings, and very separate from the general workings of the HoL at large.

Re: NHS to investigate Palantir influencer campaign as possible contract breach

#59
post #20
post #6

I just don't get it. NHS needs a big data platform so they go to a... spy tech company? Why are they so insistent that it must be Palantir that builds this, instead of choosing from a dozen of other consulting companies that don't have a dodgy track record? Ideally the NHS would just build it in house, but sadly it's a slow and bloated organisation unable to innovate (as most government managed things usually become)…

> Ideally the NHS would just build it in house, but sadly it's a slow and bloated organisation unable to innovate (as most government managed things usually become). Several government departments have robust in-house data platforms already. The Ministry of Justice does, the Department for International Trade as well. I've personally worked on the former and have pulled code from the latter. (the code I've looked at…

I've heard some horror stories from HMCTS (part of MOJ) and the Home Office.

While there might be some good intentions, buying a vendor product is often better for large organisations rather than running their warehouses, ETL and Databricks. Just too much overhead and specialist skills required.

Re: NHS to investigate Palantir influencer campaign as possible contract breach

#60
post #13

> Palantir’s Executive Vice President for UK and Europe, Louis Mosely If you're wondering, yes he is related to Oswald and Max

Of course Palantir could only be represented by the grand-son of the founder of the pre-WWII British Union of Fascists (and Holocaust Denialist post-war), and son to the famous president of the FIA and Formula 1 - who is also a racist publisher who liked to have nazi-themed orgies (and tried to silence any journal who published it). Really, Palantir's management couldn't have made a finest choice! Absolutely no under…

The day we start treating ex-communists the same way we treat ex-fascists, maybe more people will care.
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