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Inattentive Behavior in Boys with ADHD During Classroom Instruction [pdf]

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Re: Inattentive Behavior in Boys with ADHD During Classroom Instruction [pdf]

#41

Post by k8svet »

k8svet wrote: post #27
gtvwill wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

^^^ mate I can tell you a million facts about a million things as I've probably hyperfixated on something related to whatever your interested in at some point over the last 20 years. But I still can't remember where I put my wallet, phone and keys.

I say this with love, not condemnation. You have to start caring. Like actually caring. Or develop habits and discipline. I was this person. I watched my dad be the person all his life, watching my mom both enable and resent him for it. Then I realize what a nuisance he was to those around him, and how embarrassing it was that he seemingly can't take care of himself. Now I have a cross body "man-purse", I've traveled…

I didn't say it's easy but if you make the effort to put something in a consistent place, it will be there later. Some things are that simple, you just have to frame them that way and be proactive.

I used to lose sunglasses monthly, lost my wallet more times than I can count as an adult, missed appointments, constantly had to "go back" for something I'd forgotten or left behind. Constantly.

I have to be more pro-active than other people but I realize I'm just going to get downvoted more for suggesting that ADHD and symptoms are manageable and have workarounds.

Re: Inattentive Behavior in Boys with ADHD During Classroom Instruction [pdf]

#42

Post by k8svet »

ParetoOptimal wrote: post #40
k8svet wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I say this with love, not condemnation. You have to start caring. Like actually caring. Or develop habits and discipline. I was this person. I watched my dad be the person all his life, watching my mom both enable and resent him for it. Then I realize what a nuisance he was to those around him, and how embarrassing it was that he seemingly can't take care of himself. Now I have a cross body "man-purse", I've traveled…

> Now I have a cross body "man-purse", I've traveled half a dozen countries in a year and haven't lost a single thing. My wallet, my keys, my yubikey, my sunglasses, my backup meds, they have exactly one place they're allowed to be, and they're always there when I go to grab them. That doesn't mean you care and everyone doesn't, it means you figured out a way to avoid the issue entirely.

Seems a better choice than what my dad does, or everyone else that says "oh I have ADHD".

Yeah, I have ADHD and a purse. Idk why this is somehow a controversial thing to say. I can sit here and say wah, or I can figure out better tools that work for me.

Re: Inattentive Behavior in Boys with ADHD During Classroom Instruction [pdf]

#43

Post by k8svet »

tailspin2019 wrote: post #30
soulofmischief wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ADHD is not a "not caring" disorder. Most ADHD sufferers do not experience apathy but instead intense anxiety as their executive function is at odds with their goals. It's not a matter of simply thinking your way out of what is a very real, biological disorder. The ADHD brain fundamentally lacks the same dopamine receptors as a normal brain, among other mutations. These mutations have elaborate psychological manifest…

> Most ADHD sufferers do not experience apathy but instead intense anxiety as their executive function is at odds with their goals. Can confirm. This is an extremely good way of putting it.

Maybe caring wasn't the right word. My point was being pro-active so that otherwise adhd-fueled situations become easier because one has essentially looked ahead for their future-disfunctioning self.

I'm leaving the house, I grab the purse. It cut down multiple-times-a-week adhd-fueled returns home to one a month. Has this cured my ADHD? No! Has it made literally every day of my life easier and more manageable because I'm not stressed about forgetting something, or making my partner late to work? Absolutely!

Re: Inattentive Behavior in Boys with ADHD During Classroom Instruction [pdf]

#44

Post by austin-cheney »

acchow wrote: post #16
austin-cheney wrote: post #2

ADHD is a neurological impairment, less developed hardware. Less severe ADHD can be self managed and possibly even become a strength through learned self-discipline. People tend to think of ADHD as a focus issue. It’s more of a memory issue with corresponding compensation behaviors. Extreme ADHD is like watching the movie Memento, except the focal span is condensed from 5 minutes down to about 12-25 seconds and only…

ADHD is not a memory issue. The memory issues are secondary. Ever seen someone with ADHD fixated on something? Memory is not a problem within that topic.

Yes, I have seen somebody with ADHD fixate on something and the memory issues remain present while actively engaging the subject of fixation. The difference between the compulsive behaviors versus the obsessive behaviors only comes down to motivation and personal interests. This is where the dopamine cycle is impaired either way while in some cases motivation is sufficient to push through the limiting effects of supremely low serotonin. Consider the flip case where a ADHD person absolutely cannot be compelled to do something important because the lack of motivation is a greater driver of behavior than cognitive reasoning can compensate for.

There is a greater than 60% overlap in symptoms between ADHD and Autism Spectrum Disorder. The distinction is as clear as ADHD is more directly tied to memory issues and ASD is not while ASD is more directly tied to lost processing of social framing and ADHD is not.

Re: Inattentive Behavior in Boys with ADHD During Classroom Instruction [pdf]

#45

Post by lazide »

aimonster2 wrote: post #32
lazide wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience, it is as often a specific set of genetic traits exposed to a specific set of narcissistic abuse and environmental stressors. It’s why it tends to show up in early childhood, and ‘get better’ as they get older and learn how to defend themselves and avoid the destructive people and environments that are gaslighting them into doing things that are decompensating for them (actually, for everyone - which…

Are you referring to Mate? https://youtu.be/-8bp39NpU-o?si=fAPG_J39ElnD19gM

Nope, never saw his stuff. This is all purely from direct personal experience with 10+ ADHD diagnosed folks who I know personally. It’s quite striking what the patterns are when you see them.

That said, nature vs nurture, selection bias, etc.

Re: Inattentive Behavior in Boys with ADHD During Classroom Instruction [pdf]

#46

Post by soulofmischief »

k8svet wrote: post #43
tailspin2019 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most ADHD sufferers do not experience apathy but instead intense anxiety as their executive function is at odds with their goals. Can confirm. This is an extremely good way of putting it.

Maybe caring wasn't the right word. My point was being pro-active so that otherwise adhd-fueled situations become easier because one has essentially looked ahead for their future-disfunctioning self. I'm leaving the house, I grab the purse. It cut down multiple-times-a-week adhd-fueled returns home to one a month. Has this cured my ADHD? No! Has it made literally every day of my life easier and more manageable becaus…

Another great example is immediately washing dishes after cooking and eating, always. It has to become routine that the sink is not a place for dirty dishes.

Many of my ADHD friends still struggle with this, and I even on occasion will let a few dishes stack up on my desk while working for long bouts of time.

A lot of ADHD issues stem around the delayed reward system getting screwed up, and the best antidote for this is extreme proactiveness, doing everything immediately. It's too easy to wake up, say "I'll brush my teeth in a few minutes" and then hyperfocus for 16 hours straight until you fall asleep.

ADHD is its own worst enemy and building coping mechanisms or changing habits can be incredibly difficult when the nature of the disorder involves difficulty with sticking to new routines. This can be compounded heavily if there is comorbidity with OCD, PTSD, etc.

Re: Inattentive Behavior in Boys with ADHD During Classroom Instruction [pdf]

#47

Post by aatd86 »

hirvi74 wrote: post #13
aatd86 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can also be malfunctioning hardware. Can even be externally induced. Transient bouts of attention deficit with perfectly normal MRI would indicate that something else is happening.

An MRI cannot diagnose ADHD in an individual. MRI's can see trends and variations in brains of large populations. For example, an MRI of 1,000 people with ADHD might show a different sized compared to 1,000 people without ADHD. However, a single person could have the same size as the average of 1,000 ADHD people and still not have ADHD, and a person could not have a significantly different sized and have ADHD. To dat…

We do not disagree. It's not necessarily faulty hardware but can be faulty software to reprise the initial expression.

But the reasons for faulty software are not necessarily understood.

(difference between a fault in structure vs. a fault in function)

Re: Inattentive Behavior in Boys with ADHD During Classroom Instruction [pdf]

#48

Post by austin-cheney »

k8svet wrote: post #27
gtvwill wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

^^^ mate I can tell you a million facts about a million things as I've probably hyperfixated on something related to whatever your interested in at some point over the last 20 years. But I still can't remember where I put my wallet, phone and keys.

I say this with love, not condemnation. You have to start caring. Like actually caring. Or develop habits and discipline. I was this person. I watched my dad be the person all his life, watching my mom both enable and resent him for it. Then I realize what a nuisance he was to those around him, and how embarrassing it was that he seemingly can't take care of himself. Now I have a cross body "man-purse", I've traveled…

I do not have ADHD myself but when I do Army stuff I pack a lot of tiny knick knacks into my military uniform. When I started my career I would forget one or two things when leaving for work for the day. I learned to solve for that with a ritual. When I leave my barracks, or house, or hotel room, or whatever I would pat each pocket one by one just as a quick 2 second check. I haven’t needed to do this for more than 15 years but I still do it.

That kind of self-discipline and solution come naturally to people with exceptionally high conscientiousness even if they have minor ADHD. For people with serious ADHD and these kinds of rituals don’t work because the will to consider and apply them is completely absent. It isn’t a personality defect. It’s impaired hardware.

Re: Inattentive Behavior in Boys with ADHD During Classroom Instruction [pdf]

#49

Post by acchow »

aimonster2 wrote: post #36
acchow wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ADHD is not a memory issue. The memory issues are secondary. Ever seen someone with ADHD fixated on something? Memory is not a problem within that topic.

Specifically working memory and task salience.

During periods of intense focus, there is no shortage of working memory.

Without the intense focus, sure there is a working memory issue. What's actually happening is the working memory is being lost to rapid context switching.

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