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Inattentive Behavior in Boys with ADHD During Classroom Instruction [pdf]

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Re: Inattentive Behavior in Boys with ADHD During Classroom Instruction [pdf]

#21

ADHD is a neurological impairment, less developed hardware. Less severe ADHD can be self managed and possibly even become a strength through learned self-discipline. People tend to think of ADHD as a focus issue. It’s more of a memory issue with corresponding compensation behaviors. Extreme ADHD is like watching the movie Memento, except the focal span is condensed from 5 minutes down to about 12-25 seconds and only…

This sounds like me. Poor working / short term memory made school (memorizing facts) a nightmare.

Do you have more resources that educate about ADHD from this perspective?

Re: Inattentive Behavior in Boys with ADHD During Classroom Instruction [pdf]

#22
post #20

ADHD is a neurological impairment, less developed hardware. Less severe ADHD can be self managed and possibly even become a strength through learned self-discipline. People tend to think of ADHD as a focus issue. It’s more of a memory issue with corresponding compensation behaviors. Extreme ADHD is like watching the movie Memento, except the focal span is condensed from 5 minutes down to about 12-25 seconds and only…

I think research shows the most important genes are involved in producing dopamine. Two of the genes that have been found to be implicated most commonly are DAT1 and DRD4, although others are being discovered all the time. This means that brain signals are not carried correctly, and the signals may be carried to the wrong part of the brain. This, in part, leads to the well known symptoms of ADHD afaik. So memory defi…

Dopamine is certainly a factor, but low serotonin is at greater distinction. The dopamine cycle exists to regulate task completion and is associated with reward stimulus. Serotonin is associated with mood regulation. In manically depressed persons and persons with advanced ADHD serotonin production is extremely low compared to normal. The primary compensating behavior then is seeking external mood stimulators. For the person in my family with ADHD their drug of choice is anything with large amounts of red dye 40.

Although persons with ADHD have lesser DRD2 and possibly lesser DRD4 receptors using prescribed medication to raise serotonin production reduces the urge to hyper stimulate and thus drives behavior towards a more normal homeostasis, which then also solves for the forgetfulness.

Re: Inattentive Behavior in Boys with ADHD During Classroom Instruction [pdf]

#23
post #12

ADHD is a neurological impairment, less developed hardware. Less severe ADHD can be self managed and possibly even become a strength through learned self-discipline. People tend to think of ADHD as a focus issue. It’s more of a memory issue with corresponding compensation behaviors. Extreme ADHD is like watching the movie Memento, except the focal span is condensed from 5 minutes down to about 12-25 seconds and only…

> ADHD is a neurological impairment, less developed hardware. Has that been established? This says causes are uncertain: https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/attention-deficit-hyperactivit...

The causes are multiple and not clearly established, but it is clearly neurological (hardware) and not a personality defect. This is established through research into the brain and interactions with certain medications. Some examples of hardware disruption include extremely low production of neurotransmitters and extremely few neurotransmitter receivers.

Re: Inattentive Behavior in Boys with ADHD During Classroom Instruction [pdf]

#24

ADHD is a neurological impairment, less developed hardware. Less severe ADHD can be self managed and possibly even become a strength through learned self-discipline. People tend to think of ADHD as a focus issue. It’s more of a memory issue with corresponding compensation behaviors. Extreme ADHD is like watching the movie Memento, except the focal span is condensed from 5 minutes down to about 12-25 seconds and only…

This sounds like me. Poor working / short term memory made school (memorizing facts) a nightmare. Do you have more resources that educate about ADHD from this perspective?

There is a world of difference between slow study and a severe brain impairment that blocks the ability to function normally in the world. For example perhaps there is a minor focus or motivation issue where you would rather be doing something else and so find the studying less of a priority. A person with severe ADHD may forget what they were doing while they are actively engaged doing it. Imagine driving a car and your mind drifts and you begin to focus on something at the side of the road now completely unaware of what is in front of you as you continue driving forward without reservation. A person who struggles to study, on the otherwise, does not suddenly become unaware they are holding an open book in front of their face.

If you are concerned that you might have ADHD I recommend an evaluation by general physician.

Re: Inattentive Behavior in Boys with ADHD During Classroom Instruction [pdf]

#25
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience, it is as often a specific set of genetic traits exposed to a specific set of narcissistic abuse and environmental stressors. It’s why it tends to show up in early childhood, and ‘get better’ as they get older and learn how to defend themselves and avoid the destructive people and environments that are gaslighting them into doing things that are decompensating for them (actually, for everyone - which…

I concur completely with all lazide has written, and they'd get two upvotes if I had them. Abuse and neglect in the home is often the genesis of childhood "mental illness" but the industry can do jack-all about the home life of children. ADHD, bipolar, and PTSD are clusters of disparate symptoms, different with every child. They are chiefly the symptoms which annoy and inconvenience parents, caregivers, school teache…

Thank you for adding your experience. I’d also give it two upvotes if I could.

One thing I would like to add - the medication can be the least bad option, if or when the situation is not actually addressable in a useful way otherwise.

When someone has bad pain, unless it meaningfully is helping them to have it, it’s cruel to not give them pain medication. It just makes everything else harder.

Same for ADHD meds.

Untreated ADHD is worse than treated ADHD in every significant metric, at least for any given moment, as fighting an already lost battle against circumstances outside of your control isn’t going to be better than finding a way to somehow tolerate or cope with them.

The challenge comes when the circumstances can actually be addressed in some other way that can actually make things better - leaving, fighting back (successfully!), having an authority figure with the actual strength and resources to actually help instead of making it worse, counter manipulating/lying, finding a way to take ownership of the shit and somehow make it work, etc.

Which, knowing the actual right course of action is nearly impossible for the person being victimized, and is rarely in the list of options being considered by said authority figure when it’s a kid involved. But, kids are resourceful and while we may not be happy with how they do it, for all of human history they’ve been figuring it out - or dying trying.

Without that, the medication just leaves someone stuck in a broken situation, albeit better functioning. Which is better than being stuck and not! But less than ideal.

ADHD treatment has so much better long term outcomes when it’s medication + therapy, rather than either just on its own, and I think that is why.

The medication can give someone the strength (chemical or not, it still helps) to actually do the other work and see it through. Even when it’s really hard and scary.

Re: Inattentive Behavior in Boys with ADHD During Classroom Instruction [pdf]

#26

I have ADHD but growing up we didn't know that. I threw a lot of tantrums and was yelled at until I cried almost every day. I was grounded for months on end, which is now considered child abuse. In my house yelling was the norm. My mom decided I must have bipolar disorder just like my grandmother. At age 10 I was put on psychiatric drugs and that persisted for over 20 years. Any time I exhibited any intense emotion I…

I'm sorry. I'd have a hard time not being angry if I were you. Similar thing happened with my ex. Years of anti-psychotics for absolutely no fking reason. His new doc quickly took him off, and he simply got healthier, never an issue. Such a shame.

Re: Inattentive Behavior in Boys with ADHD During Classroom Instruction [pdf]

#27
post #19
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ADHD is not a memory issue. The memory issues are secondary. Ever seen someone with ADHD fixated on something? Memory is not a problem within that topic.

^^^ mate I can tell you a million facts about a million things as I've probably hyperfixated on something related to whatever your interested in at some point over the last 20 years. But I still can't remember where I put my wallet, phone and keys.

I say this with love, not condemnation. You have to start caring. Like actually caring. Or develop habits and discipline.

I was this person. I watched my dad be the person all his life, watching my mom both enable and resent him for it. Then I realize what a nuisance he was to those around him, and how embarrassing it was that he seemingly can't take care of himself.

Now I have a cross body "man-purse", I've traveled half a dozen countries in a year and haven't lost a single thing. My wallet, my keys, my yubikey, my sunglasses, my backup meds, they have exactly one place they're allowed to be, and they're always there when I go to grab them.

Re: Inattentive Behavior in Boys with ADHD During Classroom Instruction [pdf]

#28
post #27
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

^^^ mate I can tell you a million facts about a million things as I've probably hyperfixated on something related to whatever your interested in at some point over the last 20 years. But I still can't remember where I put my wallet, phone and keys.

I say this with love, not condemnation. You have to start caring. Like actually caring. Or develop habits and discipline. I was this person. I watched my dad be the person all his life, watching my mom both enable and resent him for it. Then I realize what a nuisance he was to those around him, and how embarrassing it was that he seemingly can't take care of himself. Now I have a cross body "man-purse", I've traveled…

ADHD is not a "not caring" disorder.

Most ADHD sufferers do not experience apathy but instead intense anxiety as their executive function is at odds with their goals.

It's not a matter of simply thinking your way out of what is a very real, biological disorder. The ADHD brain fundamentally lacks the same dopamine receptors as a normal brain, among other mutations. These mutations have elaborate psychological manifestations.

Some of us are able to improve with sustained practice, but even reaching a state of sustained practice can be a Sisyphean task for many.

Re: Inattentive Behavior in Boys with ADHD During Classroom Instruction [pdf]

#29
post #27
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

^^^ mate I can tell you a million facts about a million things as I've probably hyperfixated on something related to whatever your interested in at some point over the last 20 years. But I still can't remember where I put my wallet, phone and keys.

I say this with love, not condemnation. You have to start caring. Like actually caring. Or develop habits and discipline. I was this person. I watched my dad be the person all his life, watching my mom both enable and resent him for it. Then I realize what a nuisance he was to those around him, and how embarrassing it was that he seemingly can't take care of himself. Now I have a cross body "man-purse", I've traveled…

I’m not sure your experience generalizes like you’re suggesting it does, since adhd is a spectrum of related neurological abnormalities, some of which are not actually improved by medication, telling people to care more isn’t all that helpful.

Re: Inattentive Behavior in Boys with ADHD During Classroom Instruction [pdf]

#30
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I say this with love, not condemnation. You have to start caring. Like actually caring. Or develop habits and discipline. I was this person. I watched my dad be the person all his life, watching my mom both enable and resent him for it. Then I realize what a nuisance he was to those around him, and how embarrassing it was that he seemingly can't take care of himself. Now I have a cross body "man-purse", I've traveled…

ADHD is not a "not caring" disorder. Most ADHD sufferers do not experience apathy but instead intense anxiety as their executive function is at odds with their goals. It's not a matter of simply thinking your way out of what is a very real, biological disorder. The ADHD brain fundamentally lacks the same dopamine receptors as a normal brain, among other mutations. These mutations have elaborate psychological manifest…

> Most ADHD sufferers do not experience apathy but instead intense anxiety as their executive function is at odds with their goals.

Can confirm. This is an extremely good way of putting it.

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