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Minimum Wage Clock

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Re: Minimum Wage Clock

#231

Post by htss2013 »

NegativeLatency wrote: post #78
margalabargala wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you and the person you replied to are talking about two different things here. OP is saying "in terms of goals, the end goal should be reduction of poverty, not reduction of rich people". You're saying "in reality, data says that reduction of rich people tends to correlate with reduction of poverty", thus opening up reduction of rich people as one potential path towards the reduction of poverty. I don't think…

There's rich people, and then there's the ultra rich people. It just doesn't seem possible to become a billionaire through ethical means.

Why can't you be a millionaire who becomes a billionare through compound interest? If university endowments can do it so can individuals.

Re: Minimum Wage Clock

#232

Post by vivzkestrel »

AnonC wrote: post #228
vivzkestrel wrote: post #227

You are comparing apples and oranges, that is not how economics works The question you need to ask is how replaceable are you in a company? If you are the guy at Mc Donalds flipping burgers at 20$/hr, literally anyone and almost everyone can replace you with low efforts. Teach me how to flip burgers and I will be able to do your job in about 4 hrs max. But put me in Sundar Pichai s place and I might actually screw th…

I agree with some points you make (I’m not downvoting you). But I believe Sundar is the wrong example to take. There are better CEOs within that short list on the site to use. I also don’t believe that Sundar wasn’t coached and trained and retrained and went through several rehearsals on responses, body language and other aspects from a bunch of highly paid consultants, experts and those with ties in Washington, DC.

i was expecting to get downvoted because as usual a vast majority of the world doesn't understand how economics works. They only look at the final figure "the compensation" but it is more than that. Being a CEO for one of the most cutting edge companies in the world is not an easy job by any means. Every morning you wake up to 10 lawsuits easily. Even if someone throws a shoe at your face in a public meeting, you cannot say f** you without crashing the stock price. You have to deal with accussations, congressional hearings, competitors building cutting edge stuff while you have to ensure that your existing products are doing their job correctly and efficiently and that the employees on your company s payroll are not idle while making something meaningful and not losing 90% of the stock market value every single day. Remember how Elon said "f** you" and several big advertisers left Twitter the next day? If this was Google, their share price would have tanked. You will create huge losses for investors and SEC will be all over you. We really really need to teach ECONOMICS to the masses

Re: Minimum Wage Clock

#233

Post by Red_Leaves_Flyy »

EnigmaFlare wrote: post #136
NegativeLatency wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if any singular ultra wealthy person is doing nice things, you'll still have bad actors like the Koch brothers who are actively trying (and succeeding) to subvert our government systems to their own benefit. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_activities_of_the_Ko... Which is why we need governmental solutions, laws, taxes, etc and can't rely on just good will. I havent read the book you recomended, but I wi…

That's just political campaigning, isn't it? How is that "subverting" or "bad actors"?

Because the rule of law democratic processes are being tossed aside to accommodate said bad actors hence the apt moniker.

Re: Minimum Wage Clock

#234

Post by whatindaheck »

gruez wrote: post #166
whatindaheck wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone has to collect the garbage, clean public restrooms, produce our food, etc. We can't all be CEOs. Society depends on these "lowly" jobs. If the three jobs above ceased to exist we'd all be in trouble. They're all important enough to warrant a dignity wage. In first grade we all learn that food, shelter, and water are the most basic living requirements. Add standard-of-living necessities such as internet, educa…

>We can't all be CEOs. Society depends on these "lowly" jobs. If the three jobs above ceased to exist we'd all be in trouble. This feels like a variant of "Nobody goes there anymore. It's too crowded". If there was some critical job that's going unfilled, the offering price will go up and up until someone bites, ensuring it will be filled.

I’d agree if we all lived in a vacuum.

Workers can’t hold out. They (we) need food and housing. Individuals can’t hold out hoping wages go up.

From a group standpoint, unions have been weakened to such a degree in the US (where I live) that it’s hard to put together an action.

Now if unions were strengthened and grew to a point that the minimum wage had no bearing on real life. Sure, get the government out. It’s probably better that way. But you can’t strike down group power and force people to eat crap.

Re: Minimum Wage Clock

#235

Post by flandish »

NegativeLatency wrote: post #74
oneeyedpigeon wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Spirit Level [1] makes a good argument for why more equal societies benefit everyone within them. At the very least, I think it's fair to say that "Satya Nadella having more money than me doesn't make my life worse" is not definitively true. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Spirit_Level_(book)

Even if any singular ultra wealthy person is doing nice things, you'll still have bad actors like the Koch brothers who are actively trying (and succeeding) to subvert our government systems to their own benefit. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_activities_of_the_Ko... Which is why we need governmental solutions, laws, taxes, etc and can't rely on just good will. I havent read the book you recomended, but I wi…

Anyone ultra wealthy has obtained it through active or past exploitation.

Profit, dividends, and buybacks are unpaid wage.

Re: Minimum Wage Clock

#236

Post by fxd123 »

anigbrowl wrote: post #224
fxd123 wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I ask because lots of things like welfare payments and estimates of poverty level involve comparisons with the MW Can you give an example of such a welfare program? I'm not aware of any that use the minimum wage as a baseline. Most use the federal poverty level, which is pegged to the cost of food (and is updated yearly for inflation). > It's sometimes advantageous for a politician to say... I don't really care wha…

Not caring what politicians say is asinine, since its politicians who ultimately write the laws. The fact that their lines of reasoning may be bullshit doesn't alter this, because lots of policy is sold on bullshit arguments. https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/R/R44667 references some federal metrics that incorporate the MW as an input.

> Not caring what politicians say is asinine, since its politicians who ultimately write the laws.

You missed my point. I'm saying we shouldn't write laws with the goal of changing what politicians say.

> references some federal metrics that incorporate the MW as an input

You are misunderstanding that report. It's discussing potential ways to index the federal minimum wage to inflation. All those metrics do not include the minimum wage as an input

Re: Minimum Wage Clock

#237

Post by robjan »

cedws wrote: post #14
robertlagrant wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The cap implies that the amount of value provided to the employer is lower if you're younger. It's not a cap, it's a minimum. This is so people can employ kids who have very little economic value and train them to have lots of it.

>It's not a cap, it's a minimum. misphrased, fixed. >This is so people can employ kids who have very little economic value and train them to have lots of it. But 18 year olds are not kids anymore and are capable of providing just as much economic value as a 25 year old. Especially if the employer is a coffee shop or restaurant. Minimum wage should be the same for all ages. It should be at the discretion of the employ…

If they truly provide the same economic value this creates the incentive to hire younger people into these roles so this may actually prevent age discrimination.

Re: Minimum Wage Clock

#238

Post by wise_young_man »

slibhb wrote: post #23

People like to talk about inequality but absolute poverty seems like a more important target. Satya Nadella having more money than me doesn't make my life worse; I'm more concerned about the availability of jobs, food, housing, etc. That said, CEO salary does strike me as strange. Who needs 8 million per year + stock? I'd think more CEOs would voluntarily take a pay cut.

Money is power and the supply is finite. The disproportionate amount of money that CEOs make compared to the average worker is basically enabling modern day kings when you factor in political influence of money. It’s what is fueling continuous wealth inequality levels which keep being broken.

Re: Minimum Wage Clock

#239

Post by Shekelphile »

npoc wrote: post #82
kimbernator wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't mean to make assumptions about your life or your conditions, but in scenario A you describe a reality where there are a meaningful number of people who would be content to sell their labor for less than $7.25 per hour. I do not find this believable, given how little that amount is in today's dollars. At the point that you're okay with working for, say, $5/hour, why work at all? What lifestyle permits that as…

In the case of most US states, I think it's fair to say that the minimum wage is moot. As you say, hardly anyone would consider working for less than that anyway. But why take away their freedom to do so?

> But why take away their freedom to do so?

Minimum wage laws don't do that. You're completely within your rights to volunteer your time for no compensation at all if you wish.

Re: Minimum Wage Clock

#240

Post by wise_young_man »

maerF0x0 wrote: post #13

If we find this appalling, let's stop consuming the products of those who we feel are "overpaid" and visit the website, businessplace, or other endeavors of those we feel are "underpaid". Tim Cook gets paid a lot (and so do many AAPL employees), but I can't help but admit that my last 3 laptops I bought with my own cash were MBP, and not a system76 or framework. And I'm more likely to visit costco than a farmer's mar…

Try avoiding Nestle. It’s sadly near impossible.
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