Minimum Wage Clock • Hacker News Board

Re: Minimum Wage Clock

#21

Post by anigbrowl » Thu, Jan 04, 2024, 9:12 PM UTC

robertlagrant wrote: post #5

This site doesn't distinguish pay and not-pay, I think. Sundar Pichai is paid about $8m/year, not $100k/hour. The rest is stock. And even that vests over 3 years[0], not one year. [0] https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1652044/000130817923...

That's true, but CEOs (in general) are also in a unique position to create the appearance of value for stockholders through financial engineering, acquisitions, buybacks and so forth. They're able to leverage the resources of the company in unusual ways that don't necessarily have anything to do with operations or direct revenue, including firing other workers to improve the balance sheet.

And once they're retired or been forced out or moved on to another firm, they're free to divest their earned stock without much scrutiny; I've never heard of a CEO being critiqued for selling off stock in a former employer. So in that sense, money is money.

Re: Minimum Wage Clock

#22

Post by umpalumpaaa » Thu, Jan 04, 2024, 9:13 PM UTC

robertlagrant wrote: post #9

cedws wrote: post #3

I think it's appalling that the minimum wage is capped based on your age in the UK. It implies that the value provided to the employer is lower if you're younger. The minimum wage should be the same for everyone. There's plenty of 18 year olds out there doing more than their 30 year old counterparts and getting paid less for it.

> The cap implies that the amount of value provided to the employer is lower if you're younger. It's not a cap, it's a minimum. This is so people can employ kids who have very little economic value and train them to have lots of it.

Isnt this still age discrimination?

Re: Minimum Wage Clock

#23

Post by slibhb » Thu, Jan 04, 2024, 9:13 PM UTC

People like to talk about inequality but absolute poverty seems like a more important target. Satya Nadella having more money than me doesn't make my life worse; I'm more concerned about the availability of jobs, food, housing, etc.

That said, CEO salary does strike me as strange. Who needs 8 million per year + stock? I'd think more CEOs would voluntarily take a pay cut.

Re: Minimum Wage Clock

#24

Post by pylua » Thu, Jan 04, 2024, 9:14 PM UTC

npoc wrote: post #20

The minimum wage should be scrapped. It either a) prevents people who are happy to work for less obtain a job which is uneconomical at the minimum wage, or b) it creates an effect similar to communism, where everyone doing a job at or below a certain value gets paid the same, no matter what the value of their work is. This leads to the higher quality workers reducing their output, as they are only getting the paid th…

c) the minimum amount required to live peacefully and with dignity.

Re: Minimum Wage Clock

#25

Post by anigbrowl » Thu, Jan 04, 2024, 9:15 PM UTC

justrealist wrote: post #2

I mean have a conversation about the wage gap sure but know that these numbers are not meaningful as it regards the US.

True, and yet there's strenuous political opposition ot any proposal to increase it. Why is that?

Re: Minimum Wage Clock

#26

Post by oneeyedpigeon » Thu, Jan 04, 2024, 9:16 PM UTC

slibhb wrote: post #23

People like to talk about inequality but absolute poverty seems like a more important target. Satya Nadella having more money than me doesn't make my life worse; I'm more concerned about the availability of jobs, food, housing, etc. That said, CEO salary does strike me as strange. Who needs 8 million per year + stock? I'd think more CEOs would voluntarily take a pay cut.

The Spirit Level [1] makes a good argument for why more equal societies benefit everyone within them. At the very least, I think it's fair to say that "Satya Nadella having more money than me doesn't make my life worse" is not definitively true.

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Spirit_Level_(book)

Re: Minimum Wage Clock

#27

Post by robertlagrant » Thu, Jan 04, 2024, 9:16 PM UTC

cedws wrote: post #14

robertlagrant wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The cap implies that the amount of value provided to the employer is lower if you're younger. It's not a cap, it's a minimum. This is so people can employ kids who have very little economic value and train them to have lots of it.

>It's not a cap, it's a minimum. misphrased, fixed. >This is so people can employ kids who have very little economic value and train them to have lots of it. But 18 year olds are not kids anymore and are capable of providing just as much economic value as a 25 year old. Especially if the employer is a coffee shop or restaurant. Minimum wage should be the same for all ages. It should be at the discretion of the employ…

> But 18 year olds are not kids anymore and are capable of providing just as much economic value as a 25 year old. Especially if the employer is a coffee shop or restaurant.

I'm not sure that's true - experience counts in those industries. I speak as a former 18-year-old coffee shop person.

I think this is a result of minimum wage not being enough for people who can only get a minimum wage job, but are getting on in years a little. I.e. it's been lobbied into effect by those representing slightly older people to increase their wages, rather than decrease the wages of 18 year olds.

Re: Minimum Wage Clock

#28

Post by robertlagrant » Thu, Jan 04, 2024, 9:17 PM UTC

umpalumpaaa wrote: post #22

robertlagrant wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The cap implies that the amount of value provided to the employer is lower if you're younger. It's not a cap, it's a minimum. This is so people can employ kids who have very little economic value and train them to have lots of it.

Isnt this still age discrimination?

Not if it's a law, I wouldn't say. By law 16 year olds can't drive on public roads, but that's not counted as age discrimination.

Re: Minimum Wage Clock

#29

Post by AlexandrB » Thu, Jan 04, 2024, 9:18 PM UTC

slibhb wrote: post #23

People like to talk about inequality but absolute poverty seems like a more important target. Satya Nadella having more money than me doesn't make my life worse; I'm more concerned about the availability of jobs, food, housing, etc. That said, CEO salary does strike me as strange. Who needs 8 million per year + stock? I'd think more CEOs would voluntarily take a pay cut.

> Satya Nadella having more money than me doesn't make my life worse;

Are you sure about that? What if he spends that money supporting political figures and economic policies that make your life worse?

Re: Minimum Wage Clock

#30

Post by lcnPylGDnU4H9OF » Thu, Jan 04, 2024, 9:19 PM UTC

pylua wrote: post #24

npoc wrote: post #20

The minimum wage should be scrapped. It either a) prevents people who are happy to work for less obtain a job which is uneconomical at the minimum wage, or b) it creates an effect similar to communism, where everyone doing a job at or below a certain value gets paid the same, no matter what the value of their work is. This leads to the higher quality workers reducing their output, as they are only getting the paid th…

c) the minimum amount required to live peacefully and with dignity.

This is generally why I'm in favor of a UBI. It would solve so many employment problems if an employee in a bad situation could up and leave without a near-guarantee that they lose access to their home.