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Minimum Wage Clock

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Re: Minimum Wage Clock

#131

Post by dgfitz »

matrss wrote: post #85
robertlagrant wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But 18 year olds are not kids anymore and are capable of providing just as much economic value as a 25 year old. Especially if the employer is a coffee shop or restaurant. I'm not sure that's true - experience counts in those industries. I speak as a former 18-year-old coffee shop person. I think this is a result of minimum wage not being enough for people who can only get a minimum wage job, but are getting on in…

> I'm not sure that's true - experience counts in those industries. I speak as a former 18-year-old coffee shop person. You are assuming that age equals experience, but a 19 year old might be working at the coffee shop for a year already when a 25 year old is just starting. Shouldn't the 19 year old have a higher pay then?

Only if the shop owner wants to keep the 19 year employed.

Re: Minimum Wage Clock

#132

Post by rhplus »

slibhb wrote: post #23

People like to talk about inequality but absolute poverty seems like a more important target. Satya Nadella having more money than me doesn't make my life worse; I'm more concerned about the availability of jobs, food, housing, etc. That said, CEO salary does strike me as strange. Who needs 8 million per year + stock? I'd think more CEOs would voluntarily take a pay cut.

Who needs 8 million per year + stock?

Two words: generational wealth. Such CEO salaries are legacy builders. That's why no-one in their right mind would turn it down.

Re: Minimum Wage Clock

#133

Post by LesZedCB »

firewire wrote: post #113
grayhatter wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a) prevents people who are happy to work for less obtain a job which is uneconomical at the minimum wage, or Can you convince me this argument isn't also in support of slavery? (through fear) Or was that actually the point and you mean to advocate for slavery? Your arguments for b are equally malignant. If you will pay someone the minimum mage, for a minimum amount of work, and everyone else who could perform a hig…

Nations lacking a minimum wage like Singapore and Norway aren't exactly rife with slavery.

norway is highly unionized and particular sectors do implement minimum wages.

singapore is uh... ranked 149 out of 157 in the oxfam inequality index.......

Re: Minimum Wage Clock

#134

Post by lumost »

maerF0x0 wrote: post #13

If we find this appalling, let's stop consuming the products of those who we feel are "overpaid" and visit the website, businessplace, or other endeavors of those we feel are "underpaid". Tim Cook gets paid a lot (and so do many AAPL employees), but I can't help but admit that my last 3 laptops I bought with my own cash were MBP, and not a system76 or framework. And I'm more likely to visit costco than a farmer's mar…

It's a question of extremes. With the exception of Zuckerburg, these are professional managers. If they stopped doing anything day to day, their companies would remain successful and they'd keep getting paid. If they delegated their entire workload to their staff - the same would be true. In both of the above situations, the company may see it's performance and value increase.

While the above scenarios reflect the CEO's contribution to an organization's ability to capture value - there is a useful debate on whether these organizations should be able to capture that value. If the organization has a monopoly, then they can arbitrarily increase the amount of value they extract at the cost of other, more productive, sectors of the economy. Over-rewarding organizations and their leaders for capturing value incentivizes such anti-competitive behavior.

Re: Minimum Wage Clock

#135

Post by digging »

kurisufag wrote: post #47
AlexandrB wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Satya Nadella having more money than me doesn't make my life worse; Are you sure about that? What if he spends that money supporting political figures and economic policies that make your life worse?

following this line of logic would mean that /anyone/ having more capital than you is evidence of wrongness, including social capital.

Yeah, pretty much, it's wrong to hand disproportionate power to individuals without checks on how that power is used to influence society, and we have very few such checks on extremely large amounts of money.

Re: Minimum Wage Clock

#136

Post by EnigmaFlare »

NegativeLatency wrote: post #74
oneeyedpigeon wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Spirit Level [1] makes a good argument for why more equal societies benefit everyone within them. At the very least, I think it's fair to say that "Satya Nadella having more money than me doesn't make my life worse" is not definitively true. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Spirit_Level_(book)

Even if any singular ultra wealthy person is doing nice things, you'll still have bad actors like the Koch brothers who are actively trying (and succeeding) to subvert our government systems to their own benefit. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_activities_of_the_Ko... Which is why we need governmental solutions, laws, taxes, etc and can't rely on just good will. I havent read the book you recomended, but I wi…

That's just political campaigning, isn't it? How is that "subverting" or "bad actors"?

Re: Minimum Wage Clock

#137

Post by renewiltord »

NegativeLatency wrote: post #78
margalabargala wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you and the person you replied to are talking about two different things here. OP is saying "in terms of goals, the end goal should be reduction of poverty, not reduction of rich people". You're saying "in reality, data says that reduction of rich people tends to correlate with reduction of poverty", thus opening up reduction of rich people as one potential path towards the reduction of poverty. I don't think…

There's rich people, and then there's the ultra rich people. It just doesn't seem possible to become a billionaire through ethical means.

James Patterson just wrote books people like and he’s a billionaire. Are murder stories unethical or something?

Re: Minimum Wage Clock

#138

Post by DonnyV »

maerF0x0 wrote: post #51
renjimen wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is hard due to all the monopolies that exist in the modern world, and it's only possible for B2C businesses. The entire value chain is dominated by B2B where consumers have little say. I love System76 but their components are still from mega corps with stupid CEO salaries. The only effective ways to deal with this are progressive taxation and labor regulations. Bring back the 90+% top tax bracket that Thatcher a…

I'm still unsettled on the balance between unequal pay, and treating the government as the only redistribution solution (ie taxation). I do prefer market solutions that Charity/Philanthropy offer vs governmental spending. And sometimes I think about how many of the richest have a 100% tax bracket as they've pledged their fortunes to charity after death. Probably seems contradictory to my parent comment, but as I said…

Market solutions don't work against problems that affect everyone and you can't make money from. More efficiency isn't going solve poor peoples problems or monopoly capture. This is the current problem we have with healthcare. Healthcare should never have been turned into a business, it affects everyone.

Re: Minimum Wage Clock

#139

Post by xpressvideoz »

kyrra wrote: post #61

As a reminder, minimum wage is not what the government sets it at, it's zero ($0). If a company doesn't feel they get enough value out of hiring someone for a position for the government mandated minimum wage, they just won't hire that person. Thomas Sowell makes this point regularly in his books. Here's some related points on minimum wage laws: https://www.aei.org/economics/thomas-sowell-on-the-cruelty-o...

By that logic, every operating expense and capital expenditure is also zero, because if it doesn't make money, a company won't purchase anything.

Re: Minimum Wage Clock

#140

Post by iamthirsty »

lumost wrote: post #134
maerF0x0 wrote: post #13

If we find this appalling, let's stop consuming the products of those who we feel are "overpaid" and visit the website, businessplace, or other endeavors of those we feel are "underpaid". Tim Cook gets paid a lot (and so do many AAPL employees), but I can't help but admit that my last 3 laptops I bought with my own cash were MBP, and not a system76 or framework. And I'm more likely to visit costco than a farmer's mar…

It's a question of extremes. With the exception of Zuckerburg, these are professional managers. If they stopped doing anything day to day, their companies would remain successful and they'd keep getting paid. If they delegated their entire workload to their staff - the same would be true. In both of the above situations, the company may see it's performance and value increase. While the above scenarios reflect the CE…

> If they stopped doing anything day to day, their companies would remain successful and they'd keep getting paid.

Have you been close to these positions in a huge company?

I really don't think that's the case at all.

Ex: Look what happen to DIS after Iger left.

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