Article is spot on about the problems, but as much as I'm a huge fan of European style mass transit, we really need to let go of the idea of "push more public transportation" as some sort of solution in the U.S. IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. The US as a country has for the past 100 years been built around cars, both in cities and rural areas, and it would probably take another 100 years to change that if there was even t…
Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US
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Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US
#892Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US
#893Reading this thread gives me the creeps. So much entitlement. As if owning multiple cars or being able to drive 1000s of kilometres for holidays is a human right. Having kids and reading this thread is fucking depressing.
Some areas are built around automobiles. I'd rather not be financially burdened with buying/maintaining vehicles for myself, for my wife, and for my son. Unfortunately, most areas of the USA that are affordable are also built around the expectation that people have automobiles. While mass transit exists, it also isn't reliable in many of those selfsame areas. There's no sense of entitlement involved, this is more "what it takes to make it" in some areas.
Driving 1000s of kilometers for a holiday also isn't necessarily the thing. When my brother was having some emotional issues that became an emergency it was a good thing to be able to drop everything, get in my car, and drive out to see him. When my sister was in the ER about 1200 kilometers away, same thing. People argue for flight in those cases, but that would have taken longer and been more expensive.
As for kids, while things may be difficult in the future, I have faith that humankind will face and overcome the challenges thrown at the species. Humans have done so in the past, and I trust that they will do so in the future. Further, humans are not responsible for situations/actions that they had no hand in, had no say in, and have no control over. If people really want to start pointing blame for the way things are, they will inevitably be pointing fingers at some dead person or dead group of people. We can deal with things now, but unless someone can get the US congress to stop giving oil companies corporate welfare (voting hasn't helped despite Americans voting for candidates who had this as a campaign promise), I do not see anything changing.
Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US
#894Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah, but if you're low and have to stop for gas, it makes you 10 minutes late. In an EV you're an hour late or have to find another ride.
If you own a garage, this is not a thing that happens. One of the best advantages of EVs that many seem not to understand.
Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US
#895Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm in that first group and I don't see how it makes the most sense. They are not more convenient. I can "charge" my gas car in 2 minutes basically anywhere in the country. I'm going on vacation next week, driving with 2 young children. It'll be about a 11 hour drive which is not crazy for a US vacation. I don't want to plan where I stop and stop for 45 minutes to fuel up with 2 toddlers in the car. And they're all m…
I feel the same way and after speaking with many EV people i've realised the main benefit is how cheap they are to run. This comes down to the increase in efficiency compared to an ICE - ~80% of the battery energy finds its way to the wheels on EV's, vs ~30% on an ICE. If you live somewhere where electric costs are very low then a 0 to full charge your EV costs about $10. (Someone please correct me if i'm off on this…
Our utility offers very cheap prices at night, so our Tesla 3 costs $2.25 to fully charge vs. $55-70 for our Forester.
Also, maintenance is cheaper on EVs.
Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US
#896Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm in that first group and I don't see how it makes the most sense. They are not more convenient. I can "charge" my gas car in 2 minutes basically anywhere in the country. I'm going on vacation next week, driving with 2 young children. It'll be about a 11 hour drive which is not crazy for a US vacation. I don't want to plan where I stop and stop for 45 minutes to fuel up with 2 toddlers in the car. And they're all m…
It's always the "vacation that I take once a year" that people use as an excuse, meanwhile families are filling two vehicles twice a week. Get real and get new material.
Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US
#897Earlier quoted context omitted.
The problem is that if they made a sub $10k vehicle now, "everyone" would buy it. That sounds great, but there's simply not enough battery factories to make the batteries for that many vehicles. The demand for expensive vehicles is still high enough that most of the EV battery factory output of the world can go to those expensive high margin vehicles, so of course the car makers haven't focused on low cost. There are…
I keep on seeing this problem reduced to the market or a business decision, but is it simply physically possible? These vehicles require much more energy to produce. And without a reduction in consumption, almost the entire economy accounts for the availability of the same materials in the near future to meet carbon emissions targets. It's not just cars in vacuum. It feels like we simply don't accept yet that the tim…
Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US
#898Consumers seem to focus on the circumstances under which the new technology performs its worst and judge it against the performance of the old technology in this specific scenario, with little regard to how common or likely this scenario may be.
It begs the question if this is a marketing problem, a generational problem, or a simple matter of dollars and cents — that is to say: Does this kind of problem only go away when the new technology is just so much cheaper that it’s impossible to rationalize choosing the old?
Obviously it’s some combination of these things and more, but personally I think there’s an outsized effect of marketing. Here’s why: Take a look at the top selling vehicles in the US and you’ll find a large number of heavy duty pick up trucks, for example. However you’ll also find that something like 10% of consumer heavy duty vehicles actually haul anything substantial on any regular basis.
Now, take a look at the ads for these vehicles (or really any vehicles — not to pick on trucks) and you’ll find they are selling a lifestyle fantasy: Off-roading to a private beach with a surf board and your dog, hauling lumber from a forest to your family’s cabin, heroically helping a close friend move into their new home, a family road trip to Yellowstone…
It’s January 2024 and Americans everywhere are resolving to spend more time with their friends and families, to do more things outdoors, etc. They can finally get to it this year once they’ve got the (literal) vehicle to achieve this fantasy, so only then nothing stands in their way, surely…
It’s this kind of FOMO that is driving most range anxiety, because people see their vehicle in the fantastical terms they were sold, not the reality of how they’re actually used.
Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US
#899Earlier quoted context omitted.
Add a lifetime carbon tax to car purchases and EVs would make a lot more sense. Even without that they will make sense soon. Expecting new tech to start out at the same place on the mass-production supply chain curve as the internal combustion engine is idealistic. It takes time to reach economies of scale but it will happen.
As the article says, the best approach to addressing climate change is not to replace cars with EVs 1:1, but to rethink invest in public infrastructure in high-population areas so that people don't feel like they have to buy a car. This is a more thoughtful approach to addressing the problem than simply levying a tax on people who can't afford what still appears to be a rich man's toy.
Altering American culture to love public transportation is significantly less practical than offering them EVs. The only time I can think of that a campaign like that might have worked is with smoking and how many decades did that take (and how many people still smoke anyway)?
Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US
#900Earlier quoted context omitted.
I kind of agree actually on your cost points. It’s still a luxury purchase. I am a bit more conservative of a saver but feel priced out and sadly went ICE. If you qualify for the EV tax credit, I would argue the car is too expensive for your budget. If you don’t qualify barely, a brand new ICE vehicle is going to last years and be cheaper. Is it really worth it to push budget? If you way don’t qualify, definitely buy…
> If you qualify for the EV tax credit, I would argue the car is too expensive for your budget. The AGI limit for a couple is $300K. I'm pretty anti-new car as a financial move, but even I have to admit that a couple pulling down $250K-$300K/yr is probably going to be able to fade buying a new car if they want.
Location, state property taxes, share the car or not, do they already have loan on another new car, new home owners or not, current net worth, age/retirement goal, kids, kids in daycare, etc…
$300k AGI can get eaten ridiculously quick. Hence why I think an EV is too expensive for most.