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Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

businessinsider.com

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Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#711

Post by ksplicer »

speedgoose wrote: post #265

> Plus, heavier electric vehicles are harder on roads. It’s true but the author should check the fourth power law. Most of the road wear comes from the heavyweight vehicles, the trucks. The little weight increase on personal vehicles isn’t that bad for the roads. Making lightweight electric cars is also possible, the old bmw i3 was light, but it’s more expensive. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_power_law

One aspect that isn't discussed much is that the heavier vehicles do put appreciably greater wear on tires. Since as much as 70% of microplastics in the environment are from tire wear any increase may have a pretty alarming impact on the environment. There is no car based solution for the environment.

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#712

Post by whywhywouldyou »

talldatethrow wrote: post #90

I think EVs give me LESS range anxiety overall. In my gas car days, atleast once a month I was late for work or an event AND low on gas. Having to remember and think about getting gas was constantly on my mind because I have a pretty long commute. With an electric car, I start every day, always, with a full tank. No matter how late I'm running, I know there won't be a surprise that I need gas in addition to being lat…

Similar story for me!

Back when I had feet, there were so many days where I had anxiety over forgetting to tie my shoes. Sometimes I would start the day with my shoes untied. Other days I'd obsess over which knot to use. And additional worries over my shoe becoming untied during the day.

I found out the solution to these problems wasn't about just remembering to tie my shoe tightly in the morning like an adult -- the real solution was to cut off my feet so I never needed shoes again!

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#713

Post by ghaff »

Symbiote wrote: post #608
gamepsys wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The last time I bought a personal vehicle (2022) I did some math. I drive X miles a year, I pay Y for gas, I pay Z for electricity. I then compared some vehicles in the segment that fits my needs and found the ICE options to have a significantly lower cost of ownership for the 8-10 years I expect to operate the vehicle. So I left the extra 15 grand in stock, which will see a much higher rate of return than an EV woul…

Frankly I'd question why anyone who drives less-than-average is looking at buying a new car, of any type.

Because if you’re putting modest mileage on a vehicle you probably don’t need to worry much about maintenance beyond a once a year maybe scheduled visit to the dealer for a long time. That’s worth a lot to Me.

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#714

Post by outlace »

atestu wrote: post #664
outlace wrote: post #627

EV’s currently make the most sense for people who own a single family home or otherwise live in a community with readily available near-home chargers, where EV’s are on average more convenient than gas cars. People who rely on street parking and apartment dwellers would likely find EV’s more inconvenient than a gas car. We may be close to saturating the market for the former group. Another factor that could be at pla…

I'm in that first group and I don't see how it makes the most sense. They are not more convenient. I can "charge" my gas car in 2 minutes basically anywhere in the country. I'm going on vacation next week, driving with 2 young children. It'll be about a 11 hour drive which is not crazy for a US vacation. I don't want to plan where I stop and stop for 45 minutes to fuel up with 2 toddlers in the car. And they're all m…

I would guess most single family home owners have two or more cars. This is a total guess based on my own situation and those of people I know who own EV’s but most EV owners with a single family home will also own a gas car.

So an EV is more convenient than a gas car for daily commutes because you never have to go to a gas station. For the rare times you go on a long trip, you just take the gas car or you put up with having a longer trip in the EV.

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#715

Post by lagadu »

ghiculescu wrote: post #463
jussij wrote: post #460

In 2023, Australian full battery electric vehicles made up 7.2 per cent of all new vehicles sold, compared with 3.1 per cent in 2022. That is despite a decade of EV denial by one particular side of Australia government, meaning EV re-charging infrastructure in Australia is still decades behind the rest of the developed world.

Why do Australians think EV chargers should be provided by government? Petrol stations aren’t.

Because investing in infrastructure (of many types) often carries with it capital expenses and have low returns that are unbearable for most potential market players but once in place allow the provisioning of services who are very useful to the population.

In this case, nobody was going to build EV chargers if there were no EVs on the road and nobody would buy an EV if there were no chargers on the road. Stepping in and giving the initial incentive to break that cycle is what this type of intervention, such as subsidies, does.

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#716

Post by hotpotamus »

atestu wrote: post #664
outlace wrote: post #627

EV’s currently make the most sense for people who own a single family home or otherwise live in a community with readily available near-home chargers, where EV’s are on average more convenient than gas cars. People who rely on street parking and apartment dwellers would likely find EV’s more inconvenient than a gas car. We may be close to saturating the market for the former group. Another factor that could be at pla…

I'm in that first group and I don't see how it makes the most sense. They are not more convenient. I can "charge" my gas car in 2 minutes basically anywhere in the country. I'm going on vacation next week, driving with 2 young children. It'll be about a 11 hour drive which is not crazy for a US vacation. I don't want to plan where I stop and stop for 45 minutes to fuel up with 2 toddlers in the car. And they're all m…

I'd think a bit of inconvenience would be worth it for a better future for your children as well as all the world's children, but I've been around long enough to come to the understanding that that's just wishful thinking on my part; truly you are just one incredibly minuscule drop in the ocean of carbon emissions that will doom us. I don't envy young children the future world they're going to inherit.

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#717

Post by s3p »

natch wrote: post #705
atestu wrote: post #664

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in that first group and I don't see how it makes the most sense. They are not more convenient. I can "charge" my gas car in 2 minutes basically anywhere in the country. I'm going on vacation next week, driving with 2 young children. It'll be about a 11 hour drive which is not crazy for a US vacation. I don't want to plan where I stop and stop for 45 minutes to fuel up with 2 toddlers in the car. And they're all m…

I don’t think I’ve ever done a 45 minute charge stop in many trips between California and faraway places including Colorado, Montana, and Texas. These are not day trips. People read stuff and just believe it without questioning. Most of my charge stops are much quicker than what you think. 10 minutes usually. Sometimes 20 or more ahead of a long desert stretch where gas stations are also few and far between, but usua…

Agreed :) I've driven a Wrangler since I got my drivers license (nearly a decade ago) and I am just waiting for the day I am side swiped or my car rolls over due to some unforseen accident. Whether it's my fault or not. I love my car but the safety ratings are abysmal and I for one look forward to the day I have a savings high enough to afford a safe EV.

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#718

Post by rchaud »

braiamp wrote: post #681

> Since Americans have been promised a one-to-one substitute for their gas cars, this seems like a failure; an EV should be able to do everything a gas car can. This idea persists even though in 2023 the average US driver traveled only about 40 miles a day, and in 2022 about 93% of US trips were less than 30 miles. Still, in a survey conducted by Ipsos last fall, 73% of respondents indicated they had concerns about E…

That isn't good enough when you consider how much these vehicles cost compared to a used ICE car. Charging infrastructure is terrible outside of some states, whereas gas stations are plentiful even in the middle of nowhere.

The people that think "I won't need this range" aren't buying EVs, they are using Uber, transit or Hertz.

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#719

Post by Account_Removed »

stjohnswarts wrote: post #152
avgDev wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is one of the issues for me. Plus, the only viable EV now for me is Tesla, but they keep making silly decisions and are just an odd automaker. By silly decisions I mean things like removal of turn signal stalk, removal of parking sensors, lack of a gauge in field of view(y, 3), etc. I love ability to buy online. I hate the lack of an online parts catalog where I can purchase OEM parts. This is a big issue for me…

Tesla is the only one I'll buy until any car can use the tesla charger network, others simply aren't very well kept up.

If access to the supercharger network is the only factor for you, then it may be good choice. When quality or safety are also factors, then the choice is not obvious. How much will Tesla charge you for repairs over the lifetime of the vehicle. How bigger is the chance that you kill or injure your family due to quality issues. Please have a look at the Reuters Investigation below for context. https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/tesla-mu...

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#720

Post by everdrive »

outlace wrote: post #627

EV’s currently make the most sense for people who own a single family home or otherwise live in a community with readily available near-home chargers, where EV’s are on average more convenient than gas cars. People who rely on street parking and apartment dwellers would likely find EV’s more inconvenient than a gas car. We may be close to saturating the market for the former group. Another factor that could be at pla…

I'd take that even further. EVs make the most sense when all the conditions you noted are satisfied, _and_ the family can afford at least two cars, and it's not important that both cars have long range, and the family can afford the extra up-front cost of the EV. I've got a Nissan Frontier and a Nissan Leaf. The Leaf is older (2017) and has a degraded battery. (about 80% of its original life, and approximately 100 miles of range) The Leaf is very convenient for my wife, but primarily because she doesn't have a commute, and we have a more practical family car in situations where the EV won't cut it. Her mother lives with us, and also has a gas car as an additional backup.

We got the Leaf for $11k used, and if the EV were our only car we'd have had to spend significantly more on a car with much more range (at least 230 miles or more) and we'd have required the installation of a fast charger to handle the longer range. (120v charging is really pretty suitable for a car with only 100 miles of range.) All of these would have introduced significant costs and constraints, which were only offset by the very low price of a used Leaf, and the fact that we always have a backup option.

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