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Leeway? No. He’s a capitalist and his priority is well documented. Stop pretending he’s at all altruistic.
Isn’t everyone on HN a capitalist? Startups, venture funding, etc?
SpaceX Illegally Fired Workers Critical of Musk, Federal Agency Says
111–120 of 322 posts
Re: SpaceX Illegally Fired Workers Critical of Musk, Federal Agency Says
#112Earlier quoted context omitted.
>your job is...not criticize the owners of the company outside of work So companies now own 24 hours of their employees' day?
> So companies now own 24 hours of their employees' day? I’ll leave the specifics of the law and this case to the authorities, but in principle it’s not unreasonable for an employer to expect discretion in public about said employer. It’s a far cry from “owning” that time and not in principle even determining what the discourse otherwise involves.
Unfortunately that is kind of public practice right now, yes.
I have received some comments about criticism of the company's vendors on LinkedIn in the past. Note: Not even clients or our company itself! Just vendors, companies that sell stuff to us. Unfortunately some entanglement is always happening.
But to fire someone over it and claim this publicly is bringing it out in the open.
Re: SpaceX Illegally Fired Workers Critical of Musk, Federal Agency Says
#113Earlier quoted context omitted.
To quote Musk's Tweet[1] on the topic: > If you were unfairly treated by your employer due to posting or liking something on this platform, we will fund your legal bill. > No limit. > Please let us know. Now "unfairly treated" leaves some wiggle room, but the obvious implication here is that if you get "unfairly" fired for Tweeting something Musk will fund your legal bills. Why would he make this offer if he did not…
"On this platform". That's not circulating grievances/politics on a company's internal channels. How are we confusing these two?
First of all, let's dispense with the notion that "on twitter" actually matters, given the man is so petty that he canceled a dude's Tesla order over a tweet that criticized him.
Anyway:
"grievances/politics"
It came out that he paid a $250,000 settlement for a sexual harassment suit and he decided to respond to this by making jokes on twitter, quote: “Hi Chad, long time no see! Fine, if you touch my wiener, you can have a horse.”
Can we not act like this is "politics"? This is about the basic decency people should expect from any employer.
Re: SpaceX Illegally Fired Workers Critical of Musk, Federal Agency Says
#114how are they able to prove this in court though? surely the HR wouldn't be that stupid to document the reason of firing is "criticising the CEO". also, not trying to be on Musk side, of course he has made some embarrassing and stupid tweets. But if you created a letter that your CEO's public comment is "frequent source of embarrassment", won't you get fired in any other company?? in meta, someone even got fired for b…
Shotwell literally wrote an email telling them they had to stop discussing the issue or she would consider it insubordination then fired them the next day. No need for HR to do anything when the person in charge is incriminating themselves.
FWIW 'gwynne' is typically a male's name.
[edit - but in this case looks very much female]
Re: SpaceX Illegally Fired Workers Critical of Musk, Federal Agency Says
#115If I was openly criticizing the boss my expectation would be I was putting my continued employment at risk. That ain’t rocket science.
That's the opposite of meritocracy. And abuse of power on your bosses part. Don't know why so many in this thread seems to support obviously corrupt behavior.
Human relationships are not that cold. It is against human nature. Sure acting human may be suboptimal from a business sense, but there should not be a surprise when a human acts human.
Re: SpaceX Illegally Fired Workers Critical of Musk, Federal Agency Says
#116Earlier quoted context omitted.
I mean, in many cases that’s grounds for dismissal and legitimately the job of a manager. “Yo, stop bringing politics to work, your job is to make flight controls - not criticize the owners of the company outside of work. You’re being disruptive - stop.” Idk, Musks behavior is what it is, idk why these employees thought it was their role within the company to continue to speak out.
What about the fiduciary duty the company owner has to it’s shareholders, where the employees are part of that group too. I could also say “shut up your job is to make the stock go up, this isn’t twitter tea party time” to the owner
Or "Maybe don't tell our customers that buy ads to go fuck themselves".
In fact if I said that to our customers I would probably be fired.
Re: SpaceX Illegally Fired Workers Critical of Musk, Federal Agency Says
#1178 out of 13,000 employees wanted to circulate a letter complaining about Musk's tweets and the Labor board claims they were "illegally" fired over this. Which law specifically requires employers to permit every employee to spam the company with their personal grievances? This isn't union organization or whistleblowing. They could use a little more detail on how and why they believe this firing is illegal.
I spent about fifteen minutes poking around. I'm not sure, but I take the impression this is in fact protected organizing, at least according to the NLRB. It seems like this is seen by NLRB as workers expressing concern and advocating for better working conditions (eg free of Musk's distractions), and the company retaliating against them. (To be clear, I have no idea whether the case has merit or not, my only claim i…
Reading Twitter is not a part of the workplave
Re: SpaceX Illegally Fired Workers Critical of Musk, Federal Agency Says
#118how are they able to prove this in court though? surely the HR wouldn't be that stupid to document the reason of firing is "criticising the CEO". also, not trying to be on Musk side, of course he has made some embarrassing and stupid tweets. But if you created a letter that your CEO's public comment is "frequent source of embarrassment", won't you get fired in any other company?? in meta, someone even got fired for b…
Perhaps it’s a “obviousness of the coincidence“ kind of thing where if these people had nothing against them in their files and just suddenly got fired very very shortly after criticizing leadership it counts? That said as history has shown over and over I would not put it past people doing illegal things to document the illegal things they are doing.
They made a public example out of them and thus formalised the actual reason for their dismissal. So that is not in any doubt.
Re: SpaceX Illegally Fired Workers Critical of Musk, Federal Agency Says
#119[flagged]
Re: SpaceX Illegally Fired Workers Critical of Musk, Federal Agency Says
#120Earlier quoted context omitted.
Leeway? No. He’s a capitalist and his priority is well documented. Stop pretending he’s at all altruistic.
Isn’t everyone on HN a capitalist? Startups, venture funding, etc?
Not necessarily? Most of us don’t make most of our money through command of capital, so we aren’t capitalists in that sense. Far more are probably capitalists in the sense of liking capitalism and more-or-less promoting it, specifically, but that still may not be most, let alone everyone.
Anyway, markets and investment pre-date and are not identical to capitalism. Working in and among those (“yet you participate in society. Curious!”) does not imply love of those things, nor even does appreciating or being a fan of markets and private investment require one count oneself a capitalist in an ideological sense. They’re not identical.