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"No inventions; no innovations" A History of US Steel

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Re: "No inventions; no innovations" A History of US Steel

#131

Post by steveklabnik »

rhapsodic wrote: post #49
ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #38

I'm not sure innovation is really the issue, this article never actually goes into the alloys US Steel developed (of which there are many), and alloys are what makes steel steel really. It's always been fascinating to me how the just a tiny percent of another element in a metal can have an absolutely dramatic affect on the strength/resilience of the material. And they tried more complicated alloys, for instance they…

>And they tried more complicated alloys, for instance they developed Corten steel, the biggest example of which is probably the US Steel building in Pittsburgh. It's a steel where it's 'rust' essentially works as a protective layer. Also worthy of mention is the New River Gorge Bridge. [1] And the recently-collapsed Fern Hollow Bridge in Pittsburgh. [2] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_River_Gorge_Bridge [2] htt…

Or… the US Steel Tower https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Steel_Tower

Re: "No inventions; no innovations" A History of US Steel

#132

Post by hef19898 »

robertlagrant wrote: post #121
AdamH12113 wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The government of North Korea did not fall or surrender. You can argue that it was a political win if the goal was defending South Korea, but militarily, it was a stalemate. North Vietnam conquered South Vietnam after we withdrew. It was in no way a victory for the United States. Afghanistan was arguably pretty similar, although we did install a new government while we were there. Germany and Japan, on the other hand…

The US picks extremely difficult battles to fight in a way its citizens deem acceptable, and they aren't wars of conquest. Those factors are going to make it very hard to point at a simple winner.

All the wars mentioned have ckear, internationally acknowledged winners and loosers as well as treaties.

Vietnam ended in US defeat, and French defeat before that.

Afghanistan ended with US / NATO defeat and the Taliban taking over the country.

The Korean War isn't over yet technically, all we have there is a cease fire. Stalemate, nobody surrendered.

The US won the second Gulf War, Panama and some smaller stuff I am too lazy to look up.

Re: "No inventions; no innovations" A History of US Steel

#133

Post by hef19898 »

scotty79 wrote: post #110
mikeyouse wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US isn’t fighting in Ukraine so that’d be a strange result. Especially since our surplus weapons with novice operators have laid waste to the invasion force of what was considered to be the 2nd or 3rd strongest army on the planet..

> The US isn’t fighting in Ukraine Same way that russia is not fighting a war but commencing special military operation. US is doing it with both hands tied behind their back but it will make defeat no less devastating. In reality US is fighting their penultimate war right now if it ends in a loss. > what was considered to be the 2nd or 3rd strongest army on the planet.. That was summarily debunked about two weeks in…

How much active fighting troops do NATO countries have in Ukraine, exactly? You need those to be counted a belligerent in a conflict.

Re: "No inventions; no innovations" A History of US Steel

#134

Post by hef19898 »

sbierwagen wrote: post #116
sjfjsjdjwvwvc wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which war did the US win post WW2? Afaict they all ended in stalemates and eventual retreat (Korea,Iraq,Vietnam,Afghanistan,..)

Gulf War 1. Invasion of Panama. The 1994 invasion of Haiti, debatably. The Kosovo war, kinda.

Small correction: it was Gulf War 2, the first one was between Iran and Iraq (the US allied with Sadam back then, different story).

Re: "No inventions; no innovations" A History of US Steel

#135

Post by riversflow »

Beijinger wrote: post #79
delecti wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's mostly because we keep going into situations with political goals, and military means (when all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail). If a small country declared war on us, we could easily bomb them back into the iron age. Though in 20 years, the young adults there would probably provoke us into another dumb situation like the above.

"with political goals, and military means" True "If a small country declared war on us, we could easily bomb them back into the iron age." Putin probably thought the same about Ukraine. Military objectives were achieved in Afghanistan, but not in Korea and Vietnam. And based on Clausewitz: "War is politics by other means" And our politics changed....

> Military objectives were achieved in Afghanistan, but not in Korea

Hard disagree on Korea. South Korea is a hell of an ally, very inconvenient for the PRC.

Re: "No inventions; no innovations" A History of US Steel

#136

Post by solardev »

tshaddox wrote: post #97
beambot wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Technically, the US hasn't fought any wars since WWII -- as a declaration of war is a Congressional function. All of the other things people think of or refer to wars were technically "conflicts".

That’s not even correct on a technicality, because you switch mid-sentence from discussing “war” to discussing “declaration of war.” A declaration of war is plainly different from a war. Declarations of war are frequently made well after a war has begun or well before any fighting takes place. And as you state, many wars are fought without any declaration of war.

[flagged]

Re: "No inventions; no innovations" A History of US Steel

#137

Post by newsclues »

Animats wrote: post #51

For an overview of how Nucor became #1 in the US steel industry, see "American Steel" (1992) by Richard Preston. The author was present for the building and startup of Nucor's first continuous thin sheet casting mini-mill. Nucor bought a new experimental continuous caster from a German company, after trying to build their own, and built a mill around it. This plant could turn scrap metal into sheet steel. "You could…

Speaking of Gary...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnitogorsk

"In 1928 a Soviet delegation arrived in Cleveland, Ohio, to discuss with American consulting company Arthur G. McKee a plan to set up in Magnitogorsk a copy of the US Steel steel-mill in Gary."

Re: "No inventions; no innovations" A History of US Steel

#138

Post by sbierwagen »

hef19898 wrote: post #134
sbierwagen wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gulf War 1. Invasion of Panama. The 1994 invasion of Haiti, debatably. The Kosovo war, kinda.

Small correction: it was Gulf War 2, the first one was between Iran and Iraq (the US allied with Sadam back then, different story).

I mean, if the numbering system has to include every war ever fought in Mesopotamia, it would be more like Gulf War 200. You can't kick a rock in Iraq without hitting a cuneiform tablet describing a battle fought in 3500BC.

Re: "No inventions; no innovations" A History of US Steel

#139

Post by fosk »

KMag wrote: post #50
pomian wrote: post #30

One of the ideas that seems to be missed from the study of history and economy, was the effect on the total destruction of the Japanese and German industrial base - during WWII. Britain and USA, were left with their archaic industrial systems. After WWII, the Japanese and the German steel industry had to be completely reborn. (At the cost of primarily USA financing.) Those two countries had no more relics of the past…

See the movie "The Mouse That Roared". Having seen the results of Germany and Japan being bombed and rebuilt by the US, a small fictional country comes up with the brilliant development plan of intentionally starting and losing a war with the US. Spoiler alert: they end up having to deal with the tragedy of accidentally winning the war. As I recall, part of it was they just assumed their generals would lose, so the g…

Maybe someone can clarify this to me: wasn’t US help essentially given as a loan that would carry interest and repayments? Or was it given for free with the agreement that they would follow a US-inspired democratic system and be allies (and in exchange of trade agreements)? Were military bases in those countries given as a repayment, perhaps in addition to repaying the loans? But even then, isn’t the US paying rent for those bases?

Re: "No inventions; no innovations" A History of US Steel

#140

Post by chiph »

Animats wrote: post #51

For an overview of how Nucor became #1 in the US steel industry, see "American Steel" (1992) by Richard Preston. The author was present for the building and startup of Nucor's first continuous thin sheet casting mini-mill. Nucor bought a new experimental continuous caster from a German company, after trying to build their own, and built a mill around it. This plant could turn scrap metal into sheet steel. "You could…

Nucor's headquarters is near my office. It's about the same size as the local Coca-Cola bottler's. No huge edifice to the CEO's ego - just a typical office building.
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