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"No inventions; no innovations" A History of US Steel

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Re: "No inventions; no innovations" A History of US Steel

#61

Post by sjfjsjdjwvwvc »

l33t7332273 wrote: post #53
KMag wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See the movie "The Mouse That Roared". Having seen the results of Germany and Japan being bombed and rebuilt by the US, a small fictional country comes up with the brilliant development plan of intentionally starting and losing a war with the US. Spoiler alert: they end up having to deal with the tragedy of accidentally winning the war. As I recall, part of it was they just assumed their generals would lose, so the g…

A small country winning the war against post WW2 USA seems like it would be a bit of a plot hole.

Which war did the US win post WW2? Afaict they all ended in stalemates and eventual retreat (Korea,Iraq,Vietnam,Afghanistan,..)

Re: "No inventions; no innovations" A History of US Steel

#62

Post by altairTF »

legitster wrote: post #9

My grandfather worked in a metal shop for 30 years after he served in Korea. I remember him telling me they switched to Chinese made steel in the 70s because of the quality problems they were having with American made steel. Being out West, they were somewhat more free from the political/social/union pressure to use American commodities.

The paradox of rights(don't quote me, i just made this up). In wealthier societies, demands for greater worker rights from the government increase. This can lead to more bureaucracy and higher labor costs, potentially making third-world countries with lower regulations more attractive for importing goods or outsourcing production. Countries already operates in a libertarian interaction with each others. I find these global economics aspects fascinating

Re: "No inventions; no innovations" A History of US Steel

#63

Post by sjfjsjdjwvwvc »

pomian wrote: post #30

One of the ideas that seems to be missed from the study of history and economy, was the effect on the total destruction of the Japanese and German industrial base - during WWII. Britain and USA, were left with their archaic industrial systems. After WWII, the Japanese and the German steel industry had to be completely reborn. (At the cost of primarily USA financing.) Those two countries had no more relics of the past…

The German industrial base was not totally destroyed after WW2. Especially in western Germany most of it was still good and they had to rebuild little to get it going again. The myth of the Trümmerfrau rebuilding Germany into a Wirtschaftswunder from total destruction is exactly that, a myth.

Edit: also the effect of Marshallplan is usually vastly overstated - due to the massive bureaucracy involved it had relatively little impact.

Re: "No inventions; no innovations" A History of US Steel

#64

Post by achates »

l33t7332273 wrote: post #53
KMag wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See the movie "The Mouse That Roared". Having seen the results of Germany and Japan being bombed and rebuilt by the US, a small fictional country comes up with the brilliant development plan of intentionally starting and losing a war with the US. Spoiler alert: they end up having to deal with the tragedy of accidentally winning the war. As I recall, part of it was they just assumed their generals would lose, so the g…

A small country winning the war against post WW2 USA seems like it would be a bit of a plot hole.

The diplomat in charge of central Europe thinks their declaration of war is a practical joke from another department, so nobody notices when their army (of about 10 crossbowmen) shows up in New York and grabs a fictional doomsday device out of a secret lab.

Re: "No inventions; no innovations" A History of US Steel

#65

Post by pstuart »

Fatnino wrote: post #45
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Solution for the future of American industry: Bomb US Steel? Plenty of places are bombed into oblivion. What makes the rebirth is the rebuilding. The marshalling of public resources. You can replicate that without the bombs with a public-spending initiative.

How do you spend away a bunch of NIMBYs? Their whole thing is that they refuse to cooperate with that. Bombs would solve that, but come with a host of other... issues.

Eminent domain is the best we've got.

Re: "No inventions; no innovations" A History of US Steel

#66

Post by pseudolus »

For individuals interested in the steel industry who are visiting or living in the Northeast of the United States, the National Museum of Industrial History (affiliated with the Smithsonian) situated in Bethlehem, PA is a great place to visit [0]. It's located in one of the repair shops of the now defunct Bethlehem Steel plant and offers a wide ranging introduction to the production of steel in the US as well as various types of industrial machinery. As a bonus visitors can stroll the grounds of a largely intact, but derelict, steel plant. Interestingly, that particular area of Pennsylvania was also a center for the production of silk and more women were employed in the production of silk in that region then men were employed by steel plants.

[0] https://www.nmih.org/

Re: "No inventions; no innovations" A History of US Steel

#67

Post by WalterBright »

sjfjsjdjwvwvc wrote: post #63
pomian wrote: post #30

One of the ideas that seems to be missed from the study of history and economy, was the effect on the total destruction of the Japanese and German industrial base - during WWII. Britain and USA, were left with their archaic industrial systems. After WWII, the Japanese and the German steel industry had to be completely reborn. (At the cost of primarily USA financing.) Those two countries had no more relics of the past…

The German industrial base was not totally destroyed after WW2. Especially in western Germany most of it was still good and they had to rebuild little to get it going again. The myth of the Trümmerfrau rebuilding Germany into a Wirtschaftswunder from total destruction is exactly that, a myth. Edit: also the effect of Marshallplan is usually vastly overstated - due to the massive bureaucracy involved it had relatively…

Much larger shares of the MP money went to Britain and France.

Re: "No inventions; no innovations" A History of US Steel

#68

Post by yetanotherloss »

mitthrowaway2 wrote: post #34
pomian wrote: post #30

One of the ideas that seems to be missed from the study of history and economy, was the effect on the total destruction of the Japanese and German industrial base - during WWII. Britain and USA, were left with their archaic industrial systems. After WWII, the Japanese and the German steel industry had to be completely reborn. (At the cost of primarily USA financing.) Those two countries had no more relics of the past…

Solution for the future of American industry: Bomb US Steel? Maybe this would also be an effective way of clearing out NIMBYs blocking the routes for high-speed rail lines?

You jest but my friend is a professor in Toyama, Japan, and makes the occasional dark joke about moving the people out for a few days and having the US raze it again from time to time.

Sometimes getting rid of ossified organizations is a good thing, but there are probably better ways than high explosives.

Re: "No inventions; no innovations" A History of US Steel

#69

Post by delecti »

sjfjsjdjwvwvc wrote: post #61
l33t7332273 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A small country winning the war against post WW2 USA seems like it would be a bit of a plot hole.

Which war did the US win post WW2? Afaict they all ended in stalemates and eventual retreat (Korea,Iraq,Vietnam,Afghanistan,..)

That's mostly because we keep going into situations with political goals, and military means (when all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail). If a small country declared war on us, we could easily bomb them back into the iron age. Though in 20 years, the young adults there would probably provoke us into another dumb situation like the above.

Re: "No inventions; no innovations" A History of US Steel

#70

Post by mnau »

sjfjsjdjwvwvc wrote: post #61
l33t7332273 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A small country winning the war against post WW2 USA seems like it would be a bit of a plot hole.

Which war did the US win post WW2? Afaict they all ended in stalemates and eventual retreat (Korea,Iraq,Vietnam,Afghanistan,..)

First gulf war would qualify.
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