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Operation Triangulation: What you get when attack iPhones of researchers

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Re: Operation Triangulation: What you get when attack iPhones of researchers

#71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what does "uninstall iMessage" mean? you can disable iMessage right in the settings so you only receive SMSs

Which is what lockdown mode already does

No, Lockdown Mode doesn't disable iMessage.

"Most message attachments are blocked and some features are unavailable."

iMessage with blue bubbles still works in Lockdown Mode. I think GIFs don't display properly and certain other attachments, but I can share photos, audio clips and video so I otherwise don't really notice that Lockdown Mode is enabled.

Re: Operation Triangulation: What you get when attack iPhones of researchers

#72
post #3

[flagged]

There's a fundamental category error at play here: exploit chains like this one and the one behind FORCEDENTRY[1] cost millions, if not tens of millions, of dollars to discover and weaponize, even before operationalization.

The people finding and building these chains are doing so as part of nation-state intelligence operations; they go well beyond what any reasonable civilian threat model contains.

Put another way: if someone in a competent nation state's IC decides that you're worth $10+ million dollars to compromise, they are going to get you. This is true whether you have an Android, an iPhone, or a Tamagotchi. The only thing that sets Apple apart here is that they've historically beaten Google to the punch on mitigations for these kinds of exploits. But from a threat modeling perspective, this attack is not comparable to the kind that most people have to deal with. Treating it as indicative of an overall security differentiator will not help you make ordinary security decisions, because anybody who gets this kind of attention will be Mossad'ed upon[2].

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FORCEDENTRY

[2]: https://www.usenix.org/system/files/1401_08-12_mickens.pdf

Re: Operation Triangulation: What you get when attack iPhones of researchers

#73
post #18
post #4

It’s quite unfortunate that Apple doesn’t allow users to uninstall iMessage, it seems to be the infection vector for advanced threats like this, NSO group, etc. Presumably it’s to avoid the support burden, but they could gate it behind having Lockdown Mode enabled for a week or something to shake out the vast majority of mistaken activations.

I remember people were very passionately arguing iMessage can only be secure if the only client is the Apple sanctioned one > the unknown attackers kept their campaign alive simply by sending devices a new malicious iMessage text shortly after devices were restarted.

There are different aspects of security here. iMessage is tied to a physical device, so if you want to spam people, you have to purchase and burn through iPhones.

Rate limiting phishing attacks is certainly a useful security feature, but it does nothing to protect against targeted attacks.

Re: Operation Triangulation: What you get when attack iPhones of researchers

#75
post #5
post #4

It’s quite unfortunate that Apple doesn’t allow users to uninstall iMessage, it seems to be the infection vector for advanced threats like this, NSO group, etc. Presumably it’s to avoid the support burden, but they could gate it behind having Lockdown Mode enabled for a week or something to shake out the vast majority of mistaken activations.

They gotta, gotta , have those blue bubbles. Some teenagers fight to get an overpriced phone solely to avoid the deep deep shame of having a green bubble when chatting. If apple is forced to shut down iMessage being the exclusive option and have some pure SMS application they might see a sudden noticeable drop in market share.

Teenagers wanting blue bubbles and people looking to uninstall iMessage because it's a threat vector are two completely disjoint sets of people.

Re: Operation Triangulation: What you get when attack iPhones of researchers

#76
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

or Apple just implemented this "API" for them, because they've asked nicely

Or they have assets working at Apple... or they hired an ex-Apple employee... etc. That's the problem with this sort of security through obscurity; it's only secure as long as the people who know about it can keep it secret.

I don't think hiring an ex-Apple dev would let you get the needed sbox unless they stole technical documentation as they left.

So it either has to be stolen technical docs, or a feature that was put there specifically for their usage. The fact that the ranges didn't appear in the DeviceTree is indeed a bit suspicious, the fact that the description after being added is just 'DENY' is also suspicious. Why is it OK to describe every range except that one?

But the really suspicious thing is the hash. What kind of hardware interface does arbitrary DMA protected by a secret but weak hash function? Is there any legitimate usage for such a thing? I've never heard of such an interface before.

If it's a genuine backdoor and not a weird debugging feature then it should be rather difficult to add one that looks like this without other people in Apple realizing it's there. Chips are written in source code using version control, just like software. You'd have to have a way to modify the source without anyone noticing or sounding the alarm, or modifying it before synthesis is performed. That'd imply either a very deep penetration of Apple's internal network sufficient to inject backdoors into hardware, or they have one or more agents.

This really shows how dangerous it is to intel agencies when they decide to attack security professionals. Attacking Kaspersky has led directly to them burning numerous zero days including several that might have taken fairly extreme efforts to set up. It makes you wonder what is on these guy's iPhones that's considered so valuable. Presumably, they were after emails describing more zero days in other programs.

Re: Operation Triangulation: What you get when attack iPhones of researchers

#77
iMessage can be disabled by local MDM for supervised devices, via free Apple Configurator in macOS app store, https://support.apple.com/guide/deployment/restrictions-for-...

  For Wi-Fi–only devices, the Messages app is hidden. 
  For devices with Wi-Fi and cellular, the Messages app is still available, but only the SMS/MMS service can be used.
SMS/MMS messages and non-emergency cellular radio traffic can be disabled by a SIM PIN, e.g. when using device for an extended period via WiFi.

Re: Operation Triangulation: What you get when attack iPhones of researchers

#78
post #48
post #3

[flagged]

> it turns out that more people having access to the source code makes it more secure. The OpenSSL debacle kinda disproved that point, didn’t it?

And just looking up the Linux CVE list https://www.cvedetails.com/vulnerability-list/vendor_id-33/p...

Imho end of the day, open source vs closed doesn’t matter for number/severity of security issues and ends up just being ideological posturing. The bugs exist for a variety of other reasons and tend to have the same root causes attached.

OSS has other considerations though around security. Flaws may be easier to identify and either exploit or fix. Flaw fixing is trickier though because you need to do it in such a way as to not advertise it to the world either before it’s sufficiently deployed.

Re: Operation Triangulation: What you get when attack iPhones of researchers

#79
post #37

[flagged]

Reading between the lines of TFA, it seems the researchers may also suspect that to be the case: > Our guess is that this unknown hardware feature was most likely intended to be used for debugging or testing purposes by Apple engineers or the factory, or that it was included by mistake. Because this feature is not used by the firmware, we have no idea how attackers would know how to use it. However, keep in mind that…

well of course nobody would have NSA_friendly_override() in the source

plausible deniability is essential in such cases, hence the term bugdoor

Re: Operation Triangulation: What you get when attack iPhones of researchers

#80

Who had motive to target Russian government officials, knowledge of the attack vectors, history of doing so, and technical and logistical ability to perform it leads Kaspersky and myself to the only rational conclusion: that Apple cooperated with the NSA on this exploit. I assume they only use and potentially burn these valuable methods in rare and perhaps desperate instances. I expect the Russian and Chinese governm…

This looks like a typical modern security hole. There’s a giant stack of layers of unnecessary complexity, and all of them are garbage. The composition is also garbage.

All the NSA needs to launch attacks like this is to get a bunch of mediocre engineers to layer complexity atop complexity. They don’t need Apple to know about the attack.

Honestly, they probably didn’t actually have to do anything to get Apple (or any other large company) to self-pwn itself by hiring and promoting engineers and project managers for adding features, but not for improving product stability or software correctness, or deleting forgotten legacy cruft.

Anyway, the most effective approach to sabotage is to be indistinguishable from incompetence, so it’s hard to say if the people responsible for the vulnerability chain were working with the NSA or not.

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