511–520 of 653 posts
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CCS2 is terrible, I'd hate to be forced to use that giant bulky connector and cable. The EU got it wrong. Design by committee always sucks.
It was designed by VW I think, who handed it over to other car companies so there could be a universal connector. The reason it's bigger is because it supports 3-phase power, which NACS does not. 3-phase power is a big thing in Europe.
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This is basically how USB C became a thing. A group of engineers at Google created the connector design and then gave it to the USB standards body to use as the next gen.
TIL, one more terrible design I can thank Google for! Maybe in another 30 years we’ll get a properly symmetrical design with something approaching lighting’s durability.
I am the founder of Starlight Charging[1]. We are working on crazy-low-cost L2 chargers for multifamily apartments. Plug-and-charge is a sine-qua-non for us. One still major unsolved problem is the lack of agreement on a standard for payment/powerline communication from the EVSE to the vehicle. OCPP 2.0.1 and ISO 15118 is supposed to bring "Plug and Charge" capabilities -- this, in theory, would allow drivers to simp…
Can you explain why you feel plug-and-charge is so important? I have used chargers with and without it and while it is slightly more convenient to just plug in and go, it doesn't feel like such a huge improvement that I absolutely need it. I agree that having a different app for every brand of charging station would be annoying, but what about just accepting a credit card the way we do with gas stations now?
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Have you done any road tripping in an EV? my experience of the app-based charging landscape has been complete horror; apps don’t work, chargers don’t start, payments don’t through.. Just last month was a new app at McDonalds in Sweden, that one asks me to, in the freezing cold, scan a dirty QR code sticker, which takes me to a website I’ve never heard of that wants me to manually enter credit card info, like a phishi…
IMO that would be better solved by mandating tap and pay payment at EV charging spots. Integrating payments into the charging standard feels like a wild overcomplication by comparison.
I agree, that's the way to go. Charging an EV has to be just as easy as filling up a gas car. Pull up, tap you card, plug in. There's zero reason for having to fiddle with apps and memberships and qr codes and whatever else bullshit.
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If I may ask what seems like an obvious question… why can’t they just use credit card terminals like gas stations have been using for many decades?
RV charging has much smaller installations than gas. Instead of gas stations, the most common SV charging will eventually be thick poles on the footpath so you can charge wherever you park, or small one or two bay charging facilities at various businesses. That's the sort of charging infrastructure you want and seamless payment solutions is an enabling tech.
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I expect a degree of intelligence to be important in the adapter. Specifically, unless the adapter is rated for the highest possible current and voltage that the physical form factor can support (1kV, 600A? Is there even a pre-ordained limit? Tesla reports that they’ve tested NACS up to quite impressive voltages and currents.), then the adapter needs to tell the car and/or charger to limit voltage and current. Otherw…
> I expect a degree of intelligence to be important in the adapter. No, that's done by the car. The adapter just changes the shape of the plug. The car controls the charge curve.
Exactly. If a car uses an 800V battery and can charge at 500A, and the charger can supply 500A at 800V, and the adapter is only rated for 150A, something needs to tell the car not to draw more than 150A. Similarly, an adapter rated at 400V that is used with an 800V car needs to tell the car or charger not to charge at 800V (which may mean not charging at all).
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They could, and many do, but the difference is that those types of interfaces are mandated/regulated while EV charging is not. Guess what's slightly cheaper when amortized across tens of thousands of customers in the products lifetime? Not to mention the amount of data that could be mined from those customers by having yet another app on their phone with bullshit location permissions "for the best user experience." E…
IIRC the federal infrastructure bill required chargers to accept via CC reader or plug and charge. So I'm sure we will be seeing more chargers with it shortly.
> This final rule establishes a requirement that charging stations must provide a contactless payment method that accepts major credit and debit cards and accept payment through either an automated toll-free phone number or a short message/messaging system (commonly abbreviated as SMS). Payment methods must be accessible to persons with disabilities, not require a membership, not affect the power flow to vehicles, and provide access for those that are limited English proficient.
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There is no such big story here. The estimates are somewhere around 10B $ of revenue (not profit !) per year by 2030, and that's an optimistic scenario. Base case scenarios are much worse. And even that hypothetical 10B$ is hardly a 'massive' revenue stream for a company projecting to sell 10 million cars by that time (I would put their chances of achieving that goal at 0.01%). As usual with Tesla - it's all about pr…
> by 2030 > a company projecting to sell 10 million cars by that time At their latest investment day they very clearly said their goal is 20 million cars a year by 2030.
Yeah, infinite demand for sure ! That's certainly why they were cutting prices aggressively.
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I want to echo this. When contactless is ubiquitous there are pretty much no problems.
I don’t know if I agree. It’s exceedingly rare now to find a place which doesn’t accept contactless in America, but we have these problems still. Besides dumb inconsistent terminals, the main thing holding it back is (A) customers don’t use it because they either don’t know it’s much faster than our garbage chip readers, or they have been burned by hunting for the right spot to tap. And (B) even the clerks don’t use…
Lowe's and Home Depot? Walmart, still?
Companies still hoping to silo people into their own apps or antiquated payment method, which might give them a slight cc processing fee reduction that boosts their margins... at the cost of being a usability nightmare for anyone who doesn't shop there frequently. I expect that frequent shoppers will live with whatever a store does, and set up a custom app, if any, or accept using a physical card.
It's easy to see that their approach is petty, because Costco, which has fanatical customers and is members-only—there are no casual infrequent shoppers—got on board with nfc (card and smartphone) payments years ago. If any business could've gotten away with having their own app and special payment processing deals to save money, it's Costco.
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I've posted about this before, but the reason EA is such a horror show is due to their history. EA was created basically as government-mandated punishment against Volkswagen for dieselgate. So it's not that surprising that they didn't feel incentivized to deliver a great product. Compare that to the Supercharger network, where providing a great experience is a huge selling point for Teslas. I might despise Musk, and…
> I might despise Musk, and I'm not a fan of Tesla lately I’m getting sick of this tiptoeing in every thread that mentions Tesla. No ones going to come to your house and beat you if you say something positive, un-hedged, about Tesla