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Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

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Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#291

Post by lol768 »

encom wrote: post #279
apexalpha wrote: post #135

I understand the ridicule that the EU gets sometimes, and especially so when trying to regulate stuff like AI where it seems the EU wants to regulate more than to create start ups etc... But this is one thing the EU just nailed the hammer into the wood immediatly, and rightly so. I can't even remember the time it was. Maybe 2013? 2014? They just set a standard and everyone, even Tesla, adopted it. Every single EV can…

>Every single EV can plug into every charger. Nit picking, but there's a bunch of Nissan Chademo still around. Like my Leaf. I'm a bit perplexed that Nissan is still selling new Chademo cars here, since it's on the way out. I very rarely need DC charging though, and there's still lots of Chademo locations if I do. That aside, the Leaf is a wonderful car.

As a fellow Leaf owner, I agree it's really perplexing and frustrating. I was looking at what else Nissan are doing, and while they've gone for CCS on the Ariya (and also got the active battery thermal management), frankly I don't want or need an SUV.

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#292

Post by megaman821 »

martythemaniak wrote: post #260
zackmorris wrote: post #200

This makes me sad in a way that's a little hard to articulate. But I'll try! I plug my $9000 2013 Nissan Leaf into an ordinary 120V extension cord each night so I can commute to a neighboring city for work, and the electricity costs me $20/mo. I also have a 1986 Toyota pickup like on Back to the Future that I had to gas up every other week, using 30 gallons of gas per month and costing over $100. So the operating cos…

I don't understand your comment. Tesla sells a charger for $230 that comes with 120V/15A and 240V/50A connectors ( https://shop.tesla.com/product/mobile-connector ). You can also buy a connectors for every type of socket there is ( https://shop.tesla.com/product/gen-2-nema-adapters ). I had a 240V outlet installed in my garage and plug that in there to charge. I also bring it with me if I go to cottages, etc. I've us…

NEMA 50 with the mobile charger is the way to go. It is future proof and only charges a tiny bit slower than the dedicated Tesla wall connector. Not to mention with a NEMA 30 adapter it can charge up RVs.

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#293

Post by KennyBlanken »

SoftTalker wrote: post #265
why_at wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you explain why you feel plug-and-charge is so important? I have used chargers with and without it and while it is slightly more convenient to just plug in and go, it doesn't feel like such a huge improvement that I absolutely need it. I agree that having a different app for every brand of charging station would be annoying, but what about just accepting a credit card the way we do with gas stations now?

Yep. Regular petrol stations figured out pay at the pump decades ago. Why is this such a problem for EV charging?

Companies don't want want the hassle and expense of PCI compliance across their charger network. If it's just session auth shit going across the wire, they only need to worry about PCI compliance on the back end.

By collecting lots of info about you, they get a lower processing rate because the transaction is lower risk vs a swipe/tap.

They can save on transaction fees if they consolidate charging sessions; say you do 2-3 charging sessions in one day.

They want all the personal data they can collect on you constantly if you have the app installed, and to spam you with marketing notifications.

They want resistance to using a different charging network. Charger Company A's charger is $1/minute and Charger Company B's charger is $1.10, and they're on the same block? Obviously you're going to go to the cheaper one if you can just swipe your credit card.

If you have to download an app (using your mobile data, and it might be quite slow), register an account, etc - then you not going to bother with the cheaper station.

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#294

Post by Rebelgecko »

justapassenger wrote: post #179
Rebelgecko wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, I think if NA had forced a standard quickly (which the US has actually sort of done with the infrastructure bill), it would've been CCS which has a lot of downsides

Any downside other than bigger plug? And plug is bigger partially because it needs to support 3 phases, which isn’t a thing in USA houses (while common across the whole world) but is a thing at industrial locations. Tesla plug doesn’t work with 3 phases.

Bigger plug is a big one, like you mentioned. 3 phase isn't an issue in the US version IIRC, but it still has more pins than NACS to maintain backwards compatibility.

Thicker + heavier cables too (not sure if that's required by CCS or just an implementation difference w/ NACS). Together that makes CCS much more unwieldy than a gas pump.

The NACS latching mechanism is a lot better- latch failures are a big part of why so many J1772 chargers are broken and unusable.

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#295

Post by jorvi »

ttfkam wrote: post #273
jorvi wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NACS is fundamentally incompatible for 3-phase power. You need a live, a neutral, a ground, and two extra wires for each extra phase. I’ll take my chunky connector with 22kW over your sleek one with 7kW :)

> You need... I submit a counterexample of the huge network of Tesla superchargers that can do the job quite well with the NACS connector. maximum power output of 600 kW and a maximum current of 615A at 1,000V https://www.notateslaapp.com/news/1269/tesla-v4-supercharger... The practical limits are based on the cars and their batteries, not the charge port.

Supercharging, yeah. But you (or rather "everyone") won't constantly be supercharging. You'll mostly do it at home or at your office. 7kW :)

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#296

Post by _ea1k »

dylan604 wrote: post #254
_ea1k wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With an L2 at an apartment, you might be plugging in daily. It'd be nice to keep the steps as minimal as possible. Having said that, something like an NFC card + QR code support would be good enough, IMO. The main thing would be to keep the app as simple and fast as possible.

QR sticker manipulation is too easy of a vector for me to take anything seriously when it comes to "just scan the code, enter card data, and carry on" is just too easy to fake. it's even easier than credit card skimmers. I like QR codes and their convenience for non-critical things like marketing. For things that are direct payment links it is just too unsecure for my comfort

That's a fair point. TBH, a combination of GPS (or just smart defaulting) and entering a short code would work pretty easily as well.

They could also put the QR on a small screen to make it harder to fake. A little epaper display wouldn't add much to the cost.

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#297

Post by NewJazz »

fshbbdssbbgdd wrote: post #268
dylan604 wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You must not have had a dad that harped on you about letting your tank get below 50%. If I let mine get down to 10%, my dad would have taken my keys away. There are many reasons people give for this that do not involve zombies and go bags

Your car is rear-wheel-drive and the extra weight you are carrying around in the fuel tank helps your acceleration in the snow?

Driving with a near empty tank is more likely to cause corrosion.

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#298

Post by natch »

squarefoot wrote: post #158
intrasight wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least they are not charging a license fee for the connector.

Probably having the brand Tesla exposed to other cars drivers will be enough PR.

Agree, the brand and the product.

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#299

Post by sebazzz »

Symbiote wrote: post #220
justapassenger wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any downside other than bigger plug? And plug is bigger partially because it needs to support 3 phases, which isn’t a thing in USA houses (while common across the whole world) but is a thing at industrial locations. Tesla plug doesn’t work with 3 phases.

CCS1 used in North America is only single phase. CCS2 used in Europe (and elsewhere) supports three phase.

The electricity grid has three phases in the US right? Are devices seldom connected to three phases?

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#300

Post by mahastore »

mdasen wrote: post #202
conjecTech wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People also made the argument that the exclusivity of the Tesla supercharger network was a positive for Tesla. It's hard for both to be true. I think the reality is that uncertainty about charging away from home pushed a lot of people towards Tesla who might otherwise have considered a different make/model. With that gone, a moat vanished. That being said, competition in the US EV market is still weak. Maybe the adde…

Times change and companies need to adapt with the times. 2015-2022, exclusivity would be a huge positive for Tesla. Their vehicles would have lots of charging stations while other vehicles wouldn't. That's great for Tesla. When the National Electric Vehicle Infrastructure plan, it became clear that CCS would become the dominant charging standard in the US - unless Tesla acted fast. Tesla's port would go from an advan…

Where is the FTC?
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