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ASML and Samsung seal deal on 2nm chips

koreaherald.com

21–30 of 97 posts

Re: ASML and Samsung seal deal on 2nm chips

#21

Just for size reference, the SARS-CoV-2 (covid) virus is 100nm in diameter. A banana is 200,000,000nm, just in case you were wondering.

Just for completeness, “2nm” is more like 12-45nm actual transistor size. So on average about 5 of these transistors could fit inside a single SARS-CoV-2 viron.

Interesting - 100 micro bananas - I didn't realize these nominal node sizes had gotten quite so far from actual measurements!

Re: ASML and Samsung seal deal on 2nm chips

#22
post #7

Everything over the last years tells me we are very close to the end game in chip production. 1. power stopped scaling 2. clocks stopped - 4x over 20 years? 3. node names became fiction. 4. EUV now differentiates the top from everyone else. 5. IPC improvements are a trickle. 6. Tons of non-moores law ideas are here: A) GPUs B) chiplets C) stacked die D) specialized accelerators 7. Governments are now involved in divi…

Dennard scaling stopped years ago. There's definitely room at the bottom for different topologies — probably 5–10 generations worth. But! These are probably 5 year steps, not two year steps. Also, there's just as much room for the improvement of HW design as there is in peeling off SW abstraction layers above the HW.

Re: ASML and Samsung seal deal on 2nm chips

#23

Just for size reference, the SARS-CoV-2 (covid) virus is 100nm in diameter. A banana is 200,000,000nm, just in case you were wondering.

Just for completeness, “2nm” is more like 12-45nm actual transistor size. So on average about 5 of these transistors could fit inside a single SARS-CoV-2 viron.

So it's not the vaccine, but Covid itself, that is going to deploy the 5G chips into people's bodies?

Re: ASML and Samsung seal deal on 2nm chips

#24
post #13

Nigel Tufnel, chief scientist at TSMC, explains the merits of the latest hardware from ASML: "This is a fab, but it's very special because if you can see, the numbers all go down to 2nm. Look, right across the board. 2nm, 2nm, 2nm, 2nm ..." "And most of the fabs go down to 3." "Exactly." "Does that mean it's ... smaller? Is it any smaller?" "Well, it's one smaller, isn't it? It's not 3. You see, most fabs are going t…

You joke but it does seem like we’re near the end of the line. We can go from 3 nm to 2 nm to 1 nm, but we can’t go negative nanometers. That’s it.

Re: ASML and Samsung seal deal on 2nm chips

#25

Just read this in Chip War (p. 333) by Chris Miller: > Gelsinger has cut a deal with ASML to let Intel acquire the first next-generation EUV machine, which is expected to be ready in 2025. If Intel can learn how to use these new tools before rivals, it could provide a technological edge. Is the book talking about the same tech or different? If the same, does it mean that Intel only gets a year or two of headstart?

[deleted]

Re: ASML and Samsung seal deal on 2nm chips

#26
post #13

Nigel Tufnel, chief scientist at TSMC, explains the merits of the latest hardware from ASML: "This is a fab, but it's very special because if you can see, the numbers all go down to 2nm. Look, right across the board. 2nm, 2nm, 2nm, 2nm ..." "And most of the fabs go down to 3." "Exactly." "Does that mean it's ... smaller? Is it any smaller?" "Well, it's one smaller, isn't it? It's not 3. You see, most fabs are going t…

You joke but it does seem like we’re near the end of the line. We can go from 3 nm to 2 nm to 1 nm, but we can’t go negative nanometers. That’s it.

There's no (natural) law that prescribes that integers must be used, is it? Also, from what I understand that nanometer count is a bit symbolic, less literal.

EDIT: for instance IMEC talks about "sub 1nm" process, that is 0.7nm (https://www.tomshardware.com/news/imec-reveals-sub-1nm-trans...)

Re: ASML and Samsung seal deal on 2nm chips

#27
post #13

Nigel Tufnel, chief scientist at TSMC, explains the merits of the latest hardware from ASML: "This is a fab, but it's very special because if you can see, the numbers all go down to 2nm. Look, right across the board. 2nm, 2nm, 2nm, 2nm ..." "And most of the fabs go down to 3." "Exactly." "Does that mean it's ... smaller? Is it any smaller?" "Well, it's one smaller, isn't it? It's not 3. You see, most fabs are going t…

I know this is a joke, but TSMC is already talking about 1.4nm processes by 2027-2028:

https://www.tomshardware.com/tech-industry/manufacturing/tsm...

It really looks like the current tech could take us to sub 1nm.

Re: ASML and Samsung seal deal on 2nm chips

#28
post #5

Anyone here who knows what are the benefits of going from, say, 4 or 3nm to 2nm? ASML talks about energy cost per function mostly, but it’s not as clear cut as transitions in the 2000s were if I‘m not mistaken.

Concisely, but eliding: smaller transistors consume less power. Using smaller transistors, you can get the same performance at a lower power budget, or more performance at the same power budget.

You get less dynamic power loss. Static power hasn’t been as forgiving for a while now though.

Re: ASML and Samsung seal deal on 2nm chips

#29
post #13

Nigel Tufnel, chief scientist at TSMC, explains the merits of the latest hardware from ASML: "This is a fab, but it's very special because if you can see, the numbers all go down to 2nm. Look, right across the board. 2nm, 2nm, 2nm, 2nm ..." "And most of the fabs go down to 3." "Exactly." "Does that mean it's ... smaller? Is it any smaller?" "Well, it's one smaller, isn't it? It's not 3. You see, most fabs are going t…

I know this is a joke, but TSMC is already talking about 1.4nm processes by 2027-2028: https://www.tomshardware.com/tech-industry/manufacturing/tsm... It really looks like the current tech could take us to sub 1nm.

The point is that the number of “nanometers” has precious little physical significance anymore. It’s just a version number that counts downwards.

Re: ASML and Samsung seal deal on 2nm chips

#30
A few days ago it was reported that Chine companies started producing 5nm chips (model Kirin 9006C) - many years earlier than US government expected they will be able to do so. With this insane progress I will not wonder if Chinese companies start mass producing 2nm chips earlier than anyone else.
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