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Are electric cars too expensive to tempt motorists away from petrol vehicles?

theguardian.com

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Re: Are electric cars too expensive to tempt motorists away from petrol vehicles?

#161

Post by lacksconfidence »

robotcookies wrote: post #158
whynotmaybe wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just watched this Tom Scott video this morning about a Chinese company that created a "pod" where you can replace the battery instead of charging it. https://youtu.be/hNZy603as5w You can buy the car and rent the battery. Each time you need to "recharge", you change it.

There have been several attempts to make battery swapping for cars a thing. This includes Tesla's attempt and another company that went bankrupt. For some reason, it does not seem to work out and they all stop trying it.

Nio currently has around 2,000 battery swap stations in china. They seem much farther along than the people that gave up.

Re: Are electric cars too expensive to tempt motorists away from petrol vehicles?

#162

Post by Ekaros »

CraigJPerry wrote: post #17
edent wrote: post #14

In the UK, most people don't pay the "sticker" cost for a car. They take out a PCP or similar plan. Pay £X00 per month for Y months. At the end of the period, either buy the vehicle outright or hand it back. Or, as many people do, switch to a new vehicle. That's why you see so many expensive cars driven by people who can't afford them. No one is paying the up-front cost. They splurge their disposable income on a moto…

>> That's why you see so many expensive cars driven by people who can't afford them How is it possible to keep possession of the car if you’re not paying the contractual obligation? Is there some exception for cars? For example, failing to keep up with mortgage payments will eventually see you lose the property.

There is lot of models one here in different country could be:

Down payment x000

Monthly payment for x months x00

And then final payment xx000 after x months. But the seller has calculated it as such that they can buy it back and get the more by selling it.

So in the end "buyer" only pays for the depreciation and interest, which were low in previously. Much harder model now that cost of loaning has gone up. Quite a lot of people can afford to pay hundreds a month, even if that really doesn't make long term sense...

Re: Are electric cars too expensive to tempt motorists away from petrol vehicles?

#163

Post by gruez »

grimjack00 wrote: post #157
bryanlarsen wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's ridiculous. My trip was from Ottawa Canada to Saskatoon. It goes through some seriously unpopulated territory, unlike yours. It does follow major highways, so there are Tesla superchargers along the route every 100-150 km or so. We'd stay at a hotel with charging overnight so start at 100%, drive for 2.5 hours and then bathroom/charge for 15-20 mins, drive another 2.5 and eat/charge for 40 or so, repeat the mo…

So you're not charging back up to 100% until the overnight stop? When I think about how I would do a long trip in an EV, I envision getting a full charge, because first, that's what I currently do with gasoline, and second, I want as much range as possible to account for unplanned detours and/or other unexpected issues.

AFAIK the charging rate slows down as the battery gets fuller. That's why all the fast charging metrics are like "30 minutes to charge to 60%" rather than "60 minutes to charge to 100%". So on a trip where you want to spend as little time charging, you want to stop charging before 100%.

Re: Are electric cars too expensive to tempt motorists away from petrol vehicles?

#164

Post by bwanab »

Bissness wrote: post #81

Electric cars do not make sense to own if you are not also owning a garage where you can charge them overnight. Also, if you are unwilling to add 1+ hour(s) to your travel time on longer distances.

Is this opinion based on experience or speculation? I had a house with garage and it was nice, but I moved to an apt with street parking. I had feared it would be a pain, and I'd be lying if I said it was as convenient, but it really hasn't been very difficult. Moving the car every two weeks for street cleaning has been worse.

As for long distances, I haven't found that to be a big issue. Of course, I have a Tesla which has a very good charging network - and that's the point. For any brand other than Tesla, you're probably right. It amazes me that the legacy car companies each of which are multiples of Tesla's size don't seem to be able to come up with a solution that doesn't involve getting taxpayers involved.

Re: Are electric cars too expensive to tempt motorists away from petrol vehicles?

#165

Post by graemep »

palemoonale wrote: post #2

It is not only this. For me it is public greenwashing, that 'modern is always better' fallacy, subsidies (follow the money!), environmental impact of battery components, daily and seasonal inconveniences, even more SW instead of easily repairable mechanical parts, being forced by a vocal minority tru tax, social, and other penalties, etc. etc. Offer me an Hyuandai N74 and we'll talk.

New ICE cars increasingly have the same reliance on software. The lifetime of all cars will be capped by software support - particularly as they become more network connected.

Re: Are electric cars too expensive to tempt motorists away from petrol vehicles?

#166

Post by SirMaster »

Dalewyn wrote: post #47
highwaylights wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which also seems a bit wild to me. I won’t buy a new phone let alone a new car.

I only new because buying new means I do not have to worry about its history, it comes with manufacturer warranty. Buying used is rolling the dice on whether I end up with a Hangar Queen demanding attention I don't want to give. Time is money, as the saying goes. Buying new is more expensive, but it's cheaper in the long run with the time and money I did not have to waste on unexpected upkeep.

Doesn’t need to be need for manufacturer warranty.

My certified preowned car actually came with slightly more miles and a slightly longer manufacturer warranty than a new model would have.

Re: Are electric cars too expensive to tempt motorists away from petrol vehicles?

#167

Post by perryizgr8 »

Electric cars are simply not as good as their ICE counterparts, at least at the low/mid tier. High end you've got great options. But there seems to be no electric competitor to the Toyota Corolla that is as good or better at the same or lower price.

Re: Are electric cars too expensive to tempt motorists away from petrol vehicles?

#168

Post by HDThoreaun »

MichaelRo wrote: post #143

I have an acquaintance that bought an electric BMW for roughly €80,000. My Dacia has cost me €4500 when it was brand new 14 years ago and I'm still driving it. In my opinion electric cars are too expensive, yeah :)

You know you can buy €80,000 ice cars too right? Why would you compare cars that arent competing with each other?

Re: Are electric cars too expensive to tempt motorists away from petrol vehicles?

#169

Post by HDThoreaun »

Nextgrid wrote: post #135
thelastgallon wrote: post #108

Expensive only in EU and US. In China, VW has to sell cars for 16K, which are sold in EU/US for 35K - 45K. Legacy carmakers don't know how to make electric cars, rely on regulatory capture to keep prices high. VW cut prices of ID.3 down to $16,500 in China, while in Europe the same vehicle starts at nearly $43,000: https://www.arenaev.com/volkswagen_cuts_id3_price_in_china__... China reveals just how bad things are f…

Is there a reason nobody is taking on this arbitrage opportunity? Such a huge price difference should cover the cost of transporting the physical car and leave still plenty of margin for everyone (including the buyer) to get a good deal.

There isnt an arbitrage opportunity. the US and EU have missive tariffs on chinese cars which makes this not worth it.

Re: Are electric cars too expensive to tempt motorists away from petrol vehicles?

#170

Post by devilbunny »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #90
Bissness wrote: post #81

Electric cars do not make sense to own if you are not also owning a garage where you can charge them overnight. Also, if you are unwilling to add 1+ hour(s) to your travel time on longer distances.

I did a 3000km trip 4 times (twice each way) during the pandemic. Charging added 15 minutes to the trip. Everybody has to eat/sleep/bathroom, and that can happen at the same time as charging.

You’re using a very unusual definition there. 3000 km is a long way and fueling up an ICE vehicle would take at least three full tanks, each one of which takes about ten minutes. Ignore sleeping, eating, and bathroom (I used to drive 1500 km in one day, three fuel stops, bathroom with that, no food - you won’t die if you don’t eat for a day). There’s no way you charged every 500 km and only paid a 15 minute penalty. Simply stopping and getting back on the highway costs about 5 minutes.
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