As an electric car owner for the last 5 years (a Peugeot Ion), price is not my primary concern. What I want is a car with better range (250km+ in the winter), that seats 5, weighs 1100kg max, with no screen, and can tow 500kg. A plus: being able to swap the battery for a reasonable price when it gets too old. It's a shame these cars need to go to the dump at 10 years just because of the battery.
Are electric cars too expensive to tempt motorists away from petrol vehicles?
141–150 of 243 posts
Re: Are electric cars too expensive to tempt motorists away from petrol vehicles?
#142Earlier quoted context omitted.
I did a 3000km trip 4 times (twice each way) during the pandemic. Charging added 15 minutes to the trip. Everybody has to eat/sleep/bathroom, and that can happen at the same time as charging.
I did trip from London, UK to Southern Italy, Brindisi in Enyaq. By Google maps it should take 2 days (24 hours of driving, so 12 hours in 2 drivers/day). Charging dragged it on 4 days and we were charging on Ionity/Enel. So your 15 minutes is some kind of a sick joke.
A doubling of travel time is harsh. But I'm wondering how you managed to charge so inefficiently (time wise). Could it be, that you traveled with the smallest Škoda Enyaq which only supports up to 50kW of charging rate?
I checked your route with abetterrouteplanner.com using two different Enyaq models. One with 50kW charging and one with 100kW+. Here are the travel times:
- Enyaq iV 50 (50kW charging): 33 hours
- Enyaq iV 80 (100kW charging): 26 hours
- Google Maps (w/o charging time): 22,5 hours
I think you just had the wrong car model for this kind of trip.
Re: Are electric cars too expensive to tempt motorists away from petrol vehicles?
#143I have an acquaintance that bought an electric BMW for roughly €80,000.
My Dacia has cost me €4500 when it was brand new 14 years ago and I'm still driving it.
In my opinion electric cars are too expensive, yeah :)
Re: Are electric cars too expensive to tempt motorists away from petrol vehicles?
#144Earlier quoted context omitted.
Rare earths are not a major component in car batteries. They are mostly used in the electric motors for the magnets and it's acutally quite easy to replace them. Mining of lithium, copper, nickel, will have to expand in the future. But it's nothing in comparison to the damage that is done with the extraction of oil and gas.
Yes, people afraid of rare earth and lithium mining should get some numbers right first: We extract 4 BILLION TONS of oil from the ground every year. In comparison, we extract a few million tons of lithium (and it's reusable / recyclable), and a few tens of thousand tons of rare earths. The FUD about mining is pure big oil propaganda, frankly.
Few years ago the pure lithium produced was 50 THOUSAND tons. I'm sure it's a multiple by now but I'd be surprised if it has gotten to millions.
Also once lithium is extracted, it carries energy thousands of times before it needs to be recycled to work thousands of times more and so on.
Oil/coal carries the energy ONCE and then it's unmitigated pollution.
And you are right that this is about 4 BILLION tons annually.
Here is data until 2021. http://www.world-mining-data.info/?World_Mining_Data___Data_...
Re: Are electric cars too expensive to tempt motorists away from petrol vehicles?
#145Expensive only in EU and US. In China, VW has to sell cars for 16K, which are sold in EU/US for 35K - 45K. Legacy carmakers don't know how to make electric cars, rely on regulatory capture to keep prices high. VW cut prices of ID.3 down to $16,500 in China, while in Europe the same vehicle starts at nearly $43,000: https://www.arenaev.com/volkswagen_cuts_id3_price_in_china__... China reveals just how bad things are f…
Is there a reason nobody is taking on this arbitrage opportunity? Such a huge price difference should cover the cost of transporting the physical car and leave still plenty of margin for everyone (including the buyer) to get a good deal.
The arbitraged car would not be certified to comply with US/EU automotive standards, and therefore would be illegal to drive on a public road. You could only drive it on private land or put it up for display in a museum.
Re: Are electric cars too expensive to tempt motorists away from petrol vehicles?
#146It is not only this. For me it is public greenwashing, that 'modern is always better' fallacy, subsidies (follow the money!), environmental impact of battery components, daily and seasonal inconveniences, even more SW instead of easily repairable mechanical parts, being forced by a vocal minority tru tax, social, and other penalties, etc. etc. Offer me an Hyuandai N74 and we'll talk.
As an aside since we're apparently bringing out the woodworks here, why is it that nearly all electric vehicles look like crap? Seriously, their designs are nearly all terrible compared to gas/diesel cars.
They need to incorporate a large, heavy battery that needs to sit at the bottom of the vehicle for stability. That means a large footprint to keep a low roofline, or a high roofline for a smaller footprint. All EVs must work battery and range into their aesthetics, and it's a design imposition. The Tesla Roadster looked good, but it was a based on a Lotus ICE and traded interior space for aesthetics, as well as limited range: too impractical for most.
The Prius looks dull because it's tuned for ultimate efficiency while also paying a small roofline/footprint penalty for its battery in aesthetics. It would be interesting to see what a max efficiency ICE Prius would be like. I bet it could do high 30's mpg, maybe even 40, would look better, and be substantially cheaper.
Re: Are electric cars too expensive to tempt motorists away from petrol vehicles?
#147Earlier quoted context omitted.
You don’t have to buy a banger, just buy a new car and drive it for 20 years. You will save vast amounts of momey.
Same difference, after 7-10 years, it becomes a banger, or at least it has enough problems that you worry.
Maybe if you buy British cars?
Everyone I know driving 100k+ 10y+ cars from reliable manufacturers have no issues beyond regular maintenance.
My father's Benz certainly spends more time in the shop though.
Re: Are electric cars too expensive to tempt motorists away from petrol vehicles?
#148I have an acquaintance that bought an electric BMW for roughly €80,000. My Dacia has cost me €4500 when it was brand new 14 years ago and I'm still driving it. In my opinion electric cars are too expensive, yeah :)
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Re: Are electric cars too expensive to tempt motorists away from petrol vehicles?
#149Electric cars do not make sense to own if you are not also owning a garage where you can charge them overnight. Also, if you are unwilling to add 1+ hour(s) to your travel time on longer distances.
I just watched this Tom Scott video this morning about a Chinese company that created a "pod" where you can replace the battery instead of charging it.
You can buy the car and rent the battery. Each time you need to "recharge", you change it.
Re: Are electric cars too expensive to tempt motorists away from petrol vehicles?
#150Earlier quoted context omitted.
While true if you haven't noticed it Solar and Wind are taking off at a staggering rate for electrical production. At prices around $15 per MWH they are substantially cheaper than gas/coal/oil electrical production. The economics just work out now in a big way and renewables are so much cheaper fossil fuels days are numbered. Besides if you just car about the economics and not the potential reduction on the planet th…
If renewables are substantially cheaper, why did the UK and the rest of Europe have an energy crisis and record energy prices? The two things don’t add up, on one hand you have people claiming renewables are cheaper than ever, on the other you have skyrocketing electric bills. If renewables don’t actually decrease energy prices for consumers then claiming it’s cheaper is misleading.
Because they don't have enough renewables yet and run on gas. It was gas prices that went ridiculously high after Russian gas was shut off and there wasn't enough.