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Are electric cars too expensive to tempt motorists away from petrol vehicles?

theguardian.com

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Re: Are electric cars too expensive to tempt motorists away from petrol vehicles?

#151

Post by TheLoafOfBread »

MilaM wrote: post #142
TheLoafOfBread wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did trip from London, UK to Southern Italy, Brindisi in Enyaq. By Google maps it should take 2 days (24 hours of driving, so 12 hours in 2 drivers/day). Charging dragged it on 4 days and we were charging on Ionity/Enel. So your 15 minutes is some kind of a sick joke.

A doubling of travel time is harsh. But I'm wondering how you managed to charge so inefficiently (time wise). Could it be, that you traveled with the smallest Škoda Enyaq which only supports up to 50kW of charging rate? I checked your route with abetterrouteplanner.com using two different Enyaq models. One with 50kW charging and one with 100kW+. Here are the travel times: - Enyaq iV 50 (50kW charging): 33 hours - Eny…

I have Enyaq iv80. Charging rate means nothing when there are chargers in France which just won't give you juice because reasons. So then you need to slowly crawl to another charger like a clown to have even chance to get there.

Additionally it was during December, so cold weather reduced range even more, therefore your estimation would be correct but for summer time.

Re: Are electric cars too expensive to tempt motorists away from petrol vehicles?

#153

Post by dieselgate »

hightrix wrote: post #126
Dalewyn wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an aside since we're apparently bringing out the woodworks here, why is it that nearly all electric vehicles look like crap? Seriously, their designs are nearly all terrible compared to gas/diesel cars.

This is one of my biggest complaints. Many EVs look like they are EVs. I want an EV that looks like a car.

The e-golf is certainly the most modest EV i've seen around

Re: Are electric cars too expensive to tempt motorists away from petrol vehicles?

#154

Post by seanmcdirmid »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #129
TheLoafOfBread wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did trip from London, UK to Southern Italy, Brindisi in Enyaq. By Google maps it should take 2 days (24 hours of driving, so 12 hours in 2 drivers/day). Charging dragged it on 4 days and we were charging on Ionity/Enel. So your 15 minutes is some kind of a sick joke.

That's ridiculous. My trip was from Ottawa Canada to Saskatoon. It goes through some seriously unpopulated territory, unlike yours. It does follow major highways, so there are Tesla superchargers along the route every 100-150 km or so. We'd stay at a hotel with charging overnight so start at 100%, drive for 2.5 hours and then bathroom/charge for 15-20 mins, drive another 2.5 and eat/charge for 40 or so, repeat the mo…

Canada has some good charging infrastructure. If you are driving a Tesla, even better, super chargers are the gold standard for EV charging, everything else is kind of unreliable.

Re: Are electric cars too expensive to tempt motorists away from petrol vehicles?

#155

Post by robotresearcher »

mg wrote: post #28
kiba wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does that mean mankind has to grow its energy usage 24 times to match the energy absorbed by the Earth?

Thinking about energy usage always puzzles me. I'm not even sure if driving a car from one city to another really uses energy. For example, let's look at it this way: The energy from the sun is heating earth. When we use some of it to drive a solar-powered electric car from one city to another, does that lower the temperature of planet earth? I would think it does not. So why did we get the energy to drive the car fo…

Other answers correctly talk about entropy. Here’s an analogy that might help with intuition.

A kilogram bar of solid gold is worth about $70K.

Take every atom of that gold and sprinkle them separately into the ocean. You haven’t used any gold: it’s all still there. The difference in value of the bar and the seawater containing the exact same gold is in the arrangement and availability of the gold, not its mere existence.

Same with energy stored in a battery vs stored in slightly warmer atmosphere.

Re: Are electric cars too expensive to tempt motorists away from petrol vehicles?

#156

Post by Ekaros »

badpun wrote: post #97
edent wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the flip side, using PCP means that you get a brand new car and it has a warrantee. You could buy a banger for £500 - but then you're always going to be wondering if today is the day it'll cost you £££ to repair. And if you can't get in to work, that'll cost you dearly as well. £300 per month to basically not have to worry about any unexpected bills seems reasonable to me. Plus you get the social value of having a…

You don’t have to buy a banger, just buy a new car and drive it for 20 years. You will save vast amounts of momey.

Or buy lightly used car and then drive 20 years... The savings for getting one or two years old car is already substantial.

I did this and now I'm stuck with manual Kia... But I don't really drive enough to care, so I'm fine...

Re: Are electric cars too expensive to tempt motorists away from petrol vehicles?

#157

Post by grimjack00 »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #129
TheLoafOfBread wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did trip from London, UK to Southern Italy, Brindisi in Enyaq. By Google maps it should take 2 days (24 hours of driving, so 12 hours in 2 drivers/day). Charging dragged it on 4 days and we were charging on Ionity/Enel. So your 15 minutes is some kind of a sick joke.

That's ridiculous. My trip was from Ottawa Canada to Saskatoon. It goes through some seriously unpopulated territory, unlike yours. It does follow major highways, so there are Tesla superchargers along the route every 100-150 km or so. We'd stay at a hotel with charging overnight so start at 100%, drive for 2.5 hours and then bathroom/charge for 15-20 mins, drive another 2.5 and eat/charge for 40 or so, repeat the mo…

So you're not charging back up to 100% until the overnight stop?

When I think about how I would do a long trip in an EV, I envision getting a full charge, because first, that's what I currently do with gasoline, and second, I want as much range as possible to account for unplanned detours and/or other unexpected issues.

Re: Are electric cars too expensive to tempt motorists away from petrol vehicles?

#158

Post by robotcookies »

whynotmaybe wrote: post #149
Bissness wrote: post #81

Electric cars do not make sense to own if you are not also owning a garage where you can charge them overnight. Also, if you are unwilling to add 1+ hour(s) to your travel time on longer distances.

I just watched this Tom Scott video this morning about a Chinese company that created a "pod" where you can replace the battery instead of charging it. https://youtu.be/hNZy603as5w You can buy the car and rent the battery. Each time you need to "recharge", you change it.

There have been several attempts to make battery swapping for cars a thing. This includes Tesla's attempt and another company that went bankrupt. For some reason, it does not seem to work out and they all stop trying it.

Re: Are electric cars too expensive to tempt motorists away from petrol vehicles?

#159

Post by henvic »

TheLoafOfBread wrote: post #151
MilaM wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A doubling of travel time is harsh. But I'm wondering how you managed to charge so inefficiently (time wise). Could it be, that you traveled with the smallest Škoda Enyaq which only supports up to 50kW of charging rate? I checked your route with abetterrouteplanner.com using two different Enyaq models. One with 50kW charging and one with 100kW+. Here are the travel times: - Enyaq iV 50 (50kW charging): 33 hours - Eny…

I have Enyaq iv80. Charging rate means nothing when there are chargers in France which just won't give you juice because reasons. So then you need to slowly crawl to another charger like a clown to have even chance to get there. Additionally it was during December, so cold weather reduced range even more, therefore your estimation would be correct but for summer time.

My experience riding over 37k km in less than a year all around Europe with my Tesla Model Y hasn't been any like it (many trips, including from The Hague to Malmö, The Hague to Berlin, The Hague to Budapest passing by Vienna, and more trips than I can count to Belgium, twice to Switzerland, and also all the way South to Barcelona).

I think your car model isn't very appropriate for long distance travels, as most EVs. But there are some EVs out there that definitely can do it, especially all Teslas.

Re: Are electric cars too expensive to tempt motorists away from petrol vehicles?

#160

Post by henvic »

browningstreet wrote: post #124
facialwipe wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No

Rains a lot. Pretty cold. Snows. Lots of bikes. But really nice biking infrastructure — of the kind that’s hard to imagine in places like North America.

Doesn't snow as much, but the rain/wind can be pretty bad, and people still bike everywhere.
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