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Are electric cars too expensive to tempt motorists away from petrol vehicles?
41–50 of 243 posts
Re: Are electric cars too expensive to tempt motorists away from petrol vehicles?
#42[flagged]
Re: Are electric cars too expensive to tempt motorists away from petrol vehicles?
#43This reminds me of the discussions some years ago whether one should invest in an SSD when buying a new laptop or stay with a spinning disk. Nowadays, barely any new laptops are released without an SSD. When it comes to electric versus petrol, I often think about the fact that the sun sends more energy to earth in an hour than all of mankind uses in a year. I guess that in theory, all that energy could be captured wi…
SSD only became mainstream after 3D TLC was invented, bringing costs down. Planar MLC was okay but was still somewhat expensive, tech enthusiast thingy. So for petrol, sure, if we just had as energy dense batterry as fossile fuels. No, current tech is not there yet. The big range vechiles are stupidly expensive, and the inexpensive ones are daily commuters only, mostly. They also charge slowly. Most people don't own…
SSDs also had an inflection point when floods hit Thailand knocking out plants where a good chunk of spinning rust HD motors were made. Spinning drives exploded in price pushing people to accept a smaller but faster SSD and deal with it.
> We observed the first uptick at the end of October, reaching its peak in the first week of November with price increases in the 80-190% range for desktop drives and 80-150% for mobile units. Although we're beginning to see price reductions across the board, on average drives are still about 60-90% more expensive than they were before the flooding.
https://www.techspot.com/guides/494-hard-drive-pricewatch-th...
Re: Are electric cars too expensive to tempt motorists away from petrol vehicles?
#44It's a very specific perspective to assume that the sticker price is relevant. Almost no-one I know owns a new car regardless of their income bracket. 5-10 years old is the norm. Many have cars that are just on the cusp of the emissions regulations (approx 15-20 year old petrol car in London). A car that costs 3K is perfectly serviceable, you can drive across the country with it. I don't think I could find an electri…
I totally agree with you. When I’m thinking about switching to, say Tesla X, I need to explain myself how that could be cheaper during lifetime (how long is that by the way?)? The sticker tag is 10 times of the money I paid for my used one and on top of that insurance will cost as much as another used one. Only the first year of owning Tesla x will cost as eleven cars like I have now.
But that comparison would be more fair if I will compare with used Tesla. Not too many around though.
Re: Are electric cars too expensive to tempt motorists away from petrol vehicles?
#45Earlier quoted context omitted.
Does that mean mankind has to grow its energy usage 24 times to match the energy absorbed by the Earth?
Thinking about energy usage always puzzles me. I'm not even sure if driving a car from one city to another really uses energy. For example, let's look at it this way: The energy from the sun is heating earth. When we use some of it to drive a solar-powered electric car from one city to another, does that lower the temperature of planet earth? I would think it does not. So why did we get the energy to drive the car fo…
Um.
There’s this little detail of efficiency. Much less than 100% of energy used for acceleration and overcoming friction is actually spent on those. Most ends up heating up random stuff like engines, brakes, roads and tires.
I’m confused why do you think anything could be moved from A to B for free? You have to charge the car, or fuel it up, after all?
Re: Are electric cars too expensive to tempt motorists away from petrol vehicles?
#46My concern is safety (car wreaks), distaste for touch interfaces (also safety related) and the environmental (ironic, I know) and social impact of rare earths mining.
Rare earths are not a major component in car batteries. They are mostly used in the electric motors for the magnets and it's acutally quite easy to replace them. Mining of lithium, copper, nickel, will have to expand in the future. But it's nothing in comparison to the damage that is done with the extraction of oil and gas.
Re: Are electric cars too expensive to tempt motorists away from petrol vehicles?
#47Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think what parent is saying is people lease or finance cars so they can drive cars they wouldn't be able to afford in full. That is, those people can afford the monthly payments but cannot afford paying the sticker price. An easier to understand example would be how most people finance iPhones with their carrier. Most people balk at paying one or two grand for a phone, but don't mind paying ~$50 per month. At the e…
Which also seems a bit wild to me. I won’t buy a new phone let alone a new car.
I only new because buying new means I do not have to worry about its history, it comes with manufacturer warranty.
Buying used is rolling the dice on whether I end up with a Hangar Queen demanding attention I don't want to give.
Time is money, as the saying goes. Buying new is more expensive, but it's cheaper in the long run with the time and money I did not have to waste on unexpected upkeep.
Re: Are electric cars too expensive to tempt motorists away from petrol vehicles?
#48Earlier quoted context omitted.
I didn’t realise until recently just how engrained this practice is in people’s behaviour. I was discussing cars with someone not long ago and they were really matter-of-fact about switching to a new car just because the dealership offered it to them. It came across very much as that’s just how it works and everyone does that.
I wonder do any of them realise they’re paying the maximum depreciation every single time too. Losing 20k+ in depreciation every year feels like a great way to stay poor
On the flip side, using PCP means that you get a brand new car and it has a warrantee. You could buy a banger for £500 - but then you're always going to be wondering if today is the day it'll cost you £££ to repair. And if you can't get in to work, that'll cost you dearly as well.
£300 per month to basically not have to worry about any unexpected bills seems reasonable to me.
Plus you get the social value of having a "nice" car. The safety features are likely to be higher quality. And, as mentioned in the article, newer vehicles tend to be more efficient.
Basically, it is a fairly rational way to spend money.
Re: Are electric cars too expensive to tempt motorists away from petrol vehicles?
#49Right now, electric cars are still at a disadvantage because of lower production volumes. It's not only the material cost of the battery and the motor that makes them more expensive, but also the share of the development costs that each sale has to recoup. In the not so distant future I think petrol and diesel cars are going to be at a disadvantage because of this. I still own a quite old (12 years, but low mileage)…
That’s not the only thing. Electric vehicles are generally cheaper-built compared to gasoline cars at the same price point. They have cost- and weight-saving compromises that make them tangibly feel less valuable.
Re: Are electric cars too expensive to tempt motorists away from petrol vehicles?
#50There is a big shift in prices coming with Sodium Ion batteries. At about 1/4 the price of Li-ion they save substantial money all be it a little less dense. For all but the highest range cars Sodium Ion is going to do the job and BYD is talking about $12000 cars. Not quite a cheap car yet but still given the savings electrical vehicles bring on running costs its a significant step.
Its not just volume production the materials in the batteries are driving a lot of the high price. You can get a second hand Zoe for £4-5k but they are quite limited in range. A full range EV for £12k is going to be a big deal.