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Are electric cars too expensive to tempt motorists away from petrol vehicles?

theguardian.com

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Re: Are electric cars too expensive to tempt motorists away from petrol vehicles?

#111

Post by Kirby64 »

ghusto wrote: post #68

When we can buy second hand electric cars _with reliable batteries that aren’t near end of life_ for 2k, we can have a discussion. Arguments of affordability before that point will rely on cherry picking, and I call bullshit on every one of them. I know many people pay way more for cars, even buying ones they can’t afford with loans, but most of the people I know aren’t in that group.

What ICE car can you buy that fits that criteria for 2k? Anything that’s only 2k for a car these days has north of 100k miles and likely is in pretty rough shape.

Re: Are electric cars too expensive to tempt motorists away from petrol vehicles?

#112

Post by browningstreet »

facialwipe wrote: post #99
the_snooze wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Electric micromobility (e.g., e-bikes and scooters) probably makes more sense for more people right now. Keep an ICE vehicle for long-distance travel. But use your relatively cheap e-bike---that you can charge on a standard AC plug, even in an apartment---for short-distance chores and grocery runs. Of course, people who live in car-only suburbs need not apply.

Raining 300 days a year can really put a damper on things, too.

Have you been to the Netherlands?

Re: Are electric cars too expensive to tempt motorists away from petrol vehicles?

#113

Post by tonyedgecombe »

edent wrote: post #14

In the UK, most people don't pay the "sticker" cost for a car. They take out a PCP or similar plan. Pay £X00 per month for Y months. At the end of the period, either buy the vehicle outright or hand it back. Or, as many people do, switch to a new vehicle. That's why you see so many expensive cars driven by people who can't afford them. No one is paying the up-front cost. They splurge their disposable income on a moto…

I'm pretty sure finance is what has driven up the costs of a typical car. Parkers (the car valuation people) had an article recently that showed the median price of a car has gone up by twice the rate of inflation over the last 50 years. The price has tracked earnings which tends to indicate people will buy as much car as they can afford.

Re: Are electric cars too expensive to tempt motorists away from petrol vehicles?

#114

Post by relativ575 »

cpursley wrote: post #78
wazoox wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, people afraid of rare earth and lithium mining should get some numbers right first: We extract 4 BILLION TONS of oil from the ground every year. In comparison, we extract a few million tons of lithium (and it's reusable / recyclable), and a few tens of thousand tons of rare earths. The FUD about mining is pure big oil propaganda, frankly.

Is it just pure FUD? There's some very negative and well documented externalities with lithium mining in particular like child slavery and major environmental pollution. It's not something "big oil" is just making up.

There are negative externalities with any mining, especially as it's often done in developing countries with poor labor protection. However if you are serious about it you should strive to improve the condition of mining workers, as opposed to forgoing it in favor of pumping oil.

Re: Are electric cars too expensive to tempt motorists away from petrol vehicles?

#115

Post by tonyedgecombe »

Dalewyn wrote: post #47
highwaylights wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which also seems a bit wild to me. I won’t buy a new phone let alone a new car.

I only new because buying new means I do not have to worry about its history, it comes with manufacturer warranty. Buying used is rolling the dice on whether I end up with a Hangar Queen demanding attention I don't want to give. Time is money, as the saying goes. Buying new is more expensive, but it's cheaper in the long run with the time and money I did not have to waste on unexpected upkeep.

>Buying new is more expensive, but it's cheaper in the long run with the time and money I did not have to waste on unexpected upkeep.

It depends. We tend to buy three year old cars and on the whole they have all the niggles resolved by then. After that they don't start having problems until at least 100,000 miles. So we pay half the price for no extra aggravation.

Re: Are electric cars too expensive to tempt motorists away from petrol vehicles?

#118

Post by relativ575 »

tfrutuoso wrote: post #9

Yes? Not only that, most of them look terrible and the driving technique has to change dramatically to get any half decent range. It's a lot less engaging to daily an EV.

Most of them look exactly like the ICE versions of the same maker. Can you give example of EVs that you don't like, and the ICE vehicles that you like?

Re: Are electric cars too expensive to tempt motorists away from petrol vehicles?

#119

Post by tonyedgecombe »

zhrvoj wrote: post #13

Beside all of that, if you convert let's say 1/10 of cars with internal combustion engines to electric motor cars, there is no electricity to charge them. Which also leads to envirnonmental problems - creating so much electricity (+ CO2 emmision from thermal-electric plants). Just count average low electric car consumption 15kWh/100km.

The UK could move the whole fleet to electric and our overall demand would only go back to 2002 levels.

Re: Are electric cars too expensive to tempt motorists away from petrol vehicles?

#120

Post by tonyedgecombe »

ghusto wrote: post #68

When we can buy second hand electric cars _with reliable batteries that aren’t near end of life_ for 2k, we can have a discussion. Arguments of affordability before that point will rely on cherry picking, and I call bullshit on every one of them. I know many people pay way more for cars, even buying ones they can’t afford with loans, but most of the people I know aren’t in that group.

>When we can buy second hand electric cars _with reliable batteries that aren’t near end of life_ for 2k

CATL are talking about their LFP batteries having a life of 1,000,000km (600,000 miles). Given enough time there will be plenty of budget options. In the mean time you can keep buying cheap cars.

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