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Are electric cars too expensive to tempt motorists away from petrol vehicles?

theguardian.com

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Re: Are electric cars too expensive to tempt motorists away from petrol vehicles?

#11

Post by raphaelj »

"Politicians in Europe know they will eventually have to impose taxes on electricity (or else raise income taxes)"

I heard that a lot, but are we sure about this?

Petrol in Europe is taxed at about 50%, but is almost exclusively imported, thus this is the only income for gouvernements.

Electricity, on the other side, is also taxed (about 25% here in Belgium). But's it's almost entirely produced in the Union, which creates additional income and thus taxes. In the end the government income generated by electricity production is most probably around 50% too.

Add to that the external costs of petrol cars that electric cars don't have (at least not as much), such as the huge impact of pollution on the healthcare sector, climate change, or the negative import balance caused by the import of fossil fuel... And it might well be that electric vehicles will be a better deal overall tax wise.

Re: Are electric cars too expensive to tempt motorists away from petrol vehicles?

#12

Post by speedgoose »

techterrier wrote: post #4

Just get rid of the damn cars.

In city centres for sure. In the country side, the population density makes public transports more challenging. People could walk or bike or ski but that would reduce their life quality.

It’s difficult to reduce your life quality unless you are forced. I don’t see country side people giving up their cars.

Re: Are electric cars too expensive to tempt motorists away from petrol vehicles?

#13

Post by zhrvoj »

Beside all of that, if you convert let's say 1/10 of cars with internal combustion engines to electric motor cars, there is no electricity to charge them. Which also leads to envirnonmental problems - creating so much electricity (+ CO2 emmision from thermal-electric plants). Just count average low electric car consumption 15kWh/100km.

Re: Are electric cars too expensive to tempt motorists away from petrol vehicles?

#14

Post by edent »

In the UK, most people don't pay the "sticker" cost for a car. They take out a PCP or similar plan. Pay £X00 per month for Y months. At the end of the period, either buy the vehicle outright or hand it back. Or, as many people do, switch to a new vehicle.

That's why you see so many expensive cars driven by people who can't afford them. No one is paying the up-front cost. They splurge their disposable income on a motor and treat it like a mobile phone - upgrade it every few years.

A VW eUP (an electric vehicle) is about £200pcm. The new Mini is about £300pcm. Those are comparable with ICE vehicles.

Re: Are electric cars too expensive to tempt motorists away from petrol vehicles?

#15

Post by kiba »

mg wrote: post #8

This reminds me of the discussions some years ago whether one should invest in an SSD when buying a new laptop or stay with a spinning disk. Nowadays, barely any new laptops are released without an SSD. When it comes to electric versus petrol, I often think about the fact that the sun sends more energy to earth in an hour than all of mankind uses in a year. I guess that in theory, all that energy could be captured wi…

Does that mean mankind has to grow its energy usage 24 times to match the energy absorbed by the Earth?

Re: Are electric cars too expensive to tempt motorists away from petrol vehicles?

#16

Post by highwaylights »

edent wrote: post #14

In the UK, most people don't pay the "sticker" cost for a car. They take out a PCP or similar plan. Pay £X00 per month for Y months. At the end of the period, either buy the vehicle outright or hand it back. Or, as many people do, switch to a new vehicle. That's why you see so many expensive cars driven by people who can't afford them. No one is paying the up-front cost. They splurge their disposable income on a moto…

I didn’t realise until recently just how engrained this practice is in people’s behaviour.

I was discussing cars with someone not long ago and they were really matter-of-fact about switching to a new car just because the dealership offered it to them. It came across very much as that’s just how it works and everyone does that.

Re: Are electric cars too expensive to tempt motorists away from petrol vehicles?

#17

Post by CraigJPerry »

edent wrote: post #14

In the UK, most people don't pay the "sticker" cost for a car. They take out a PCP or similar plan. Pay £X00 per month for Y months. At the end of the period, either buy the vehicle outright or hand it back. Or, as many people do, switch to a new vehicle. That's why you see so many expensive cars driven by people who can't afford them. No one is paying the up-front cost. They splurge their disposable income on a moto…

>> That's why you see so many expensive cars driven by people who can't afford them

How is it possible to keep possession of the car if you’re not paying the contractual obligation? Is there some exception for cars?

For example, failing to keep up with mortgage payments will eventually see you lose the property.

Re: Are electric cars too expensive to tempt motorists away from petrol vehicles?

#18

Post by kiba »

speedgoose wrote: post #12
techterrier wrote: post #4

Just get rid of the damn cars.

In city centres for sure. In the country side, the population density makes public transports more challenging. People could walk or bike or ski but that would reduce their life quality. It’s difficult to reduce your life quality unless you are forced. I don’t see country side people giving up their cars.

Most people live in urban areas. Even in suburban areas, the bicycle could be a viable form of transportation. My grocery store is literally under ten minutes away by bike, but it is essentially a nightmare to bike to because of a lack of safe cycling infrastructures.

Re: Are electric cars too expensive to tempt motorists away from petrol vehicles?

#19

Post by eternauta3k »

kiba wrote: post #15
mg wrote: post #8

This reminds me of the discussions some years ago whether one should invest in an SSD when buying a new laptop or stay with a spinning disk. Nowadays, barely any new laptops are released without an SSD. When it comes to electric versus petrol, I often think about the fact that the sun sends more energy to earth in an hour than all of mankind uses in a year. I guess that in theory, all that energy could be captured wi…

Does that mean mankind has to grow its energy usage 24 times to match the energy absorbed by the Earth?

More like 24 * 365 times.

Re: Are electric cars too expensive to tempt motorists away from petrol vehicles?

#20

Post by defrost »

kiba wrote: post #15
mg wrote: post #8

This reminds me of the discussions some years ago whether one should invest in an SSD when buying a new laptop or stay with a spinning disk. Nowadays, barely any new laptops are released without an SSD. When it comes to electric versus petrol, I often think about the fact that the sun sends more energy to earth in an hour than all of mankind uses in a year. I guess that in theory, all that energy could be captured wi…

Does that mean mankind has to grow its energy usage 24 times to match the energy absorbed by the Earth?

Assuming the quoted figures are correct ...

it'd be more like 24 x 365 (and a bit) to match the per hour input to per year usage.

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