Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Are electric cars too expensive to tempt motorists away from petrol vehicles?

theguardian.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 243 posts

Re: Are electric cars too expensive to tempt motorists away from petrol vehicles?

#91

Post by mint2 »

ghusto wrote: post #68

When we can buy second hand electric cars _with reliable batteries that aren’t near end of life_ for 2k, we can have a discussion. Arguments of affordability before that point will rely on cherry picking, and I call bullshit on every one of them. I know many people pay way more for cars, even buying ones they can’t afford with loans, but most of the people I know aren’t in that group.

are you saying that cost shouldn’t be a critique until the market as matured? Because of course a new product still being rolled out doesn’t have a good second hand market. It’s not reasonable to expect that.

Re: Are electric cars too expensive to tempt motorists away from petrol vehicles?

#93

Post by the_snooze »

Bissness wrote: post #81

Electric cars do not make sense to own if you are not also owning a garage where you can charge them overnight. Also, if you are unwilling to add 1+ hour(s) to your travel time on longer distances.

Electric micromobility (e.g., e-bikes and scooters) probably makes more sense for more people right now. Keep an ICE vehicle for long-distance travel. But use your relatively cheap e-bike---that you can charge on a standard AC plug, even in an apartment---for short-distance chores and grocery runs.

Of course, people who live in car-only suburbs need not apply.

Re: Are electric cars too expensive to tempt motorists away from petrol vehicles?

#95

Post by wazoox »

cpursley wrote: post #78
wazoox wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, people afraid of rare earth and lithium mining should get some numbers right first: We extract 4 BILLION TONS of oil from the ground every year. In comparison, we extract a few million tons of lithium (and it's reusable / recyclable), and a few tens of thousand tons of rare earths. The FUD about mining is pure big oil propaganda, frankly.

Is it just pure FUD? There's some very negative and well documented externalities with lithium mining in particular like child slavery and major environmental pollution. It's not something "big oil" is just making up.

"Child slavery" is a known problem with cobalt mining, not lithium mining.

Re: Are electric cars too expensive to tempt motorists away from petrol vehicles?

#96

Post by mrangle »

ndsipa_pomu wrote: post #63
speedgoose wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In city centres for sure. In the country side, the population density makes public transports more challenging. People could walk or bike or ski but that would reduce their life quality. It’s difficult to reduce your life quality unless you are forced. I don’t see country side people giving up their cars.

I would dispute that driving leads to a higher quality of life than walking/biking/skiing due to the health problems from lack of exercise. Driving certainly helps with long commutes, but are long commute times increasing the quality of life?

Driving isn't negotiable, when living in the USA outside of the few major metros. Unless you've done it, you may not know what I mean. Most of the US is truly remote, even from the closest grocery store. Health doesn't play into the practical consideration of the way most of the country needs to traverse needed distances.

Re: Are electric cars too expensive to tempt motorists away from petrol vehicles?

#97

Post by badpun »

edent wrote: post #48
padjo wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder do any of them realise they’re paying the maximum depreciation every single time too. Losing 20k+ in depreciation every year feels like a great way to stay poor

On the flip side, using PCP means that you get a brand new car and it has a warrantee. You could buy a banger for £500 - but then you're always going to be wondering if today is the day it'll cost you £££ to repair. And if you can't get in to work, that'll cost you dearly as well. £300 per month to basically not have to worry about any unexpected bills seems reasonable to me. Plus you get the social value of having a…

You don’t have to buy a banger, just buy a new car and drive it for 20 years. You will save vast amounts of momey.

Re: Are electric cars too expensive to tempt motorists away from petrol vehicles?

#98

Post by wazoox »

cpursley wrote: post #77
wazoox wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Petrol fire is undoubtedly easier to come by and more dangerous in case of a crash. Touch interfaces aren't specifically tied to electric vehicles; it's a common disease on all modern vehicles, fortunately on the decline. Environmentally, in countries with reasonably balanced (i.e. not China and Poland) power generation, EVs are *way better* than ICEs, without the slightest room for debate.

Petrol fire is much easier to extinguish than a battery fire. Yeah, touch interfaces is a disease on most modern vehicles (but especially electric). The infrastructure is the weakest link after the raw material chain required to build them. Oh, and recycling/disposal.

Petrol fire is much more common than battery fires, which are vanishingly rare.

The oil infrastructure must be dismantled as fast as possible. Recycling of batteries is a chicken-egg problem : it's ramping up, but is necessarily lagging behind EV market penetration. It's an eminently solvable problem -- lead batteries are recycled way over 95% already.

Remember : a vehicle lasts about 12 to 14 years. in 2035 (12 years), our fossil fuel consumption must have been reduced drastically compared to now. Buying any sort of ICE vehicle today is really, really hard to justify.

Re: Are electric cars too expensive to tempt motorists away from petrol vehicles?

#99

Post by facialwipe »

the_snooze wrote: post #93
Bissness wrote: post #81

Electric cars do not make sense to own if you are not also owning a garage where you can charge them overnight. Also, if you are unwilling to add 1+ hour(s) to your travel time on longer distances.

Electric micromobility (e.g., e-bikes and scooters) probably makes more sense for more people right now. Keep an ICE vehicle for long-distance travel. But use your relatively cheap e-bike---that you can charge on a standard AC plug, even in an apartment---for short-distance chores and grocery runs. Of course, people who live in car-only suburbs need not apply.

Raining 300 days a year can really put a damper on things, too.

Re: Are electric cars too expensive to tempt motorists away from petrol vehicles?

#100

Post by alphabettsy »

edent wrote: post #48
padjo wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder do any of them realise they’re paying the maximum depreciation every single time too. Losing 20k+ in depreciation every year feels like a great way to stay poor

On the flip side, using PCP means that you get a brand new car and it has a warrantee. You could buy a banger for £500 - but then you're always going to be wondering if today is the day it'll cost you £££ to repair. And if you can't get in to work, that'll cost you dearly as well. £300 per month to basically not have to worry about any unexpected bills seems reasonable to me. Plus you get the social value of having a…

People here in the US do the same bad math. Leasing is almost always worse even than buying with a loan.
Post reply on HN