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Australia to ban engineered stone

abc.net.au

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Re: Australia to ban engineered stone

#461

Post by sellmesoap »

prmoustache wrote: post #434
legitster wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the link: > "What we found ... was that the natural products we had in the panel of products that we assessed actually caused the biggest inflammatory response," Professor Zosky said. I'm not sure why they are saying it's the engineering. Their own study says that natural stone products are worse than the engineered products! It's probably there's a larger number of cases of silicosis from engineered products de…

Natural stone are expensive and a luxury items. They are not the alternative to engineered stone really. Engineered stone are bought by middle-class, and thus in much higher number. The alternative being usually plain wood.

While natural stone is more expensive, it also requires sealer (wax/polymer + VOCs) is more prone to cracking or breaking during transport or use (put a hot pan on the counter and find out) and we do cut it on site with a angle grinder when nessisary. Engineered stone generates a ton of microplastics when being fabricated, and it wouldn't surprise me if it had endocrine disrupting chemicals. I'm a cranky old web dev, looking for my next dev/ops job, email in bio :)

Re: Australia to ban engineered stone

#462

Post by lostlogin »

kortilla wrote: post #442
Brian_K_White wrote: post #402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Murder risk is negligible because we do things about it. My house has never burned down, therefor firemen, smoke alarms, and extinguishers are a scam. Got it.

No, murder risk is negligible not because you avoid going out, but because of law. You conflated the two.

Is it because of law?

Making harsher laws doesn’t seem to reduce the murder rate. Having a death penalty doesn’t seem to stop the murders.

Re: Australia to ban engineered stone

#463

Post by Tangurena2 »

rvba wrote: post #411
account42 wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not like whatever the demand that the engineered stone currently fills suddenly disappears so those workers will be able to find other similar jobs.

The toxic (but cheaper) stuff will be manufactured offshore

From the article:

> The federal government will also impose a ban on imported engineered stone to provide an "additional layer of enforcement and deterrence at the border", however the date has not been finalised yet.

Re: Australia to ban engineered stone

#464

Post by red-iron-pine »

pyb wrote: post #451
gnfargbl wrote: post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The logic here is that if an industry can only be made safe with strict PPE standards, but the market dynamics make it difficult to ensure compliance with those standards, then it is OK to ban the industry. That seems a pretty concerning stance for small businesses. What's next? Ban microbreweries because they don't properly manage the risks of CO2 asphyxiation? Ban small-shop mechanics because they routinely get bra…

The cause for poor health-and-safety conduct appears to be cultural, rather than "market dynamics"

it is market dynamics -- PPE is too expensive, and they won't do it.

Re: Australia to ban engineered stone

#465

Post by scythe »

Reason077 wrote: post #289
xupybd wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not use other materials? Modified acrylic or compact laminate? That will save lives.

Although good materials, acrylics and laminates are not quite as durable as engineered stone countertops. They tend to show more wear over time, and are more prone to damage from extreme heat etc. Some may consider the look and feel of stone to be more "premium". But of course they're cheaper and lighter and probably still cheaper than stone even if you end up replacing them a couple of times over the lifetime of the…

Geopolymer to the rescue!

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S000888460...

Re: Australia to ban engineered stone

#466

Post by Tangurena2 »

drivebyadvice wrote: post #226
stephen_g wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s incredible how bad tradies are at PPE. When my solar panels were being installed on my house, the electrician was happily about to drill through asbestos cement eave lining before I stopped him, and at least made him put on a disposable P2 respirator mask I had lying around. But he still released asbestos fibres into the air and the ceiling cavity where his colleagues were working, and will have got it on his cl…

The talk in the trade is that asbestos is way overblown and it mostly affected people installing it in ships for the Navy. They worked in tight spaces with lots of asbestos in the air, lining the ship and its pipes with it, all day every day. I don't know how true that is but I've heard the same exact story from several different contractors. I do know that getting those linoleum/asbestos floor tiles ripped up will c…

I had some conversations with some folks who worked in asbestos removal. In the US, everyone who touches the stuff owns it forever. The bags used to pack it have the name, license #s and contact info for the company removing it. If the landfill decides 20 years from now that they no longer want it in their landfill, your company gets to pay to remove it and then dispose of it in a new landfill.

The general feeling was that every asbestos removal company goes out of business (dissolve, chapter 7) in order to escape the permanent liability of the stuff. At which point it now becomes a SuperFund issue.

Re: Australia to ban engineered stone

#467

Post by scythe »

quickthrower2 wrote: post #199
wolverine876 wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The problem with “always wear a p100” is that they’re not comfortable in an unventilated uncooled house which is where a lot of construction happens. If everyone is wearing one you also need to take more breaks which eats into time to do the job. Also, solutions that require people to consistently do uncomfortable things are not realistic; we know they will fail to comply - just like we would - and they will get si…

The same people probably work out at the gym ironically! But covid showed that people can wear masks alot.

A paper Covid mask is nowhere near as uncomfortable as a p100!

Re: Australia to ban engineered stone

#468

Post by lotsofpulp »

newaccount74 wrote: post #315
lotsofpulp wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would a customer verify that? They are supposed to also monitor the worksite? And be knowledgeable about consistent work and the type of PPE it requires?

It's not really that hard to understand PPE requirements. Is it dusty? Wear a mask. Is it loud? Hearing protection. And everyone should wear shoes with steel caps. If you see someone with a bandana over their mouth in sandals you know they are unsafe. They know it too. This is not something that is difficult to understand.

And then what? The customer takes pictures and reports them to the government? Fires them? What if there is a dispute, the laborer takes the customer to court for false claims?

Who polices the customer? The logistics of making everyone a cop make no sense to me.

Re: Australia to ban engineered stone

#469

Post by Workaccount2 »

tedk-42 wrote: post #296
thedays wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many people underestimate the risks from asbestos as the disease can take 20-40 years to develop after exposure but it shouldn’t be underestimated. Asbestosis killed over 3,600 people in 2015. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asbestosis Asbestos has affected all sorts or people, not just in the Navy. A close relative of mine who was a plumber has been diagnosed with it and it is an awful disease. This woman is dying f…

I'm skeptical of the story. Husband wears asbestos ridden clothes all day, maybe wears PPE and what not, but we've tied it the cancer the wife has because of her exposure to the clothes while handling them in the wash? Even if the husband took off his clothes, separately bagged them and then handed them to his wife to clean, it's hard to see how his exposure is less to the point where only she was diagnosed.

This is going to sound absolutely crazy to you, but you are just going to have to trust me:

Different people can have dramatically different reactions to identical things. Totally insane, right?

Re: Australia to ban engineered stone

#470

Post by DannyBee »

yeeeloit wrote: post #183
mattmaroon wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK, fair, and tragic, but is the only solution banning it entirely? What about requiring PPE? There are a whole lot of jobs that are safe when done properly and unsafe, when not done properly. It seems as if they are punishing an entire industry for not knowing what they didn’t know.

Cutting stone and keeping 100% of it out of your lungs is nearly impossible, especially when you are working in uncontrolled environments like someone's kitchen that is being renovated. The PPE available for this sort of work is just not up to the job.

PAPR is fine? and available?
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