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Australia to ban engineered stone

abc.net.au

381–390 of 542 posts

Re: Australia to ban engineered stone

#381

Ridiculous like everything politicians do. They could ban installation that is not precut with machines, or the usage of tools without dust handling but banning the entire field is just crazy. With today technology you can 3d scan the dimensions, water cut with automatic machines and only minor adjustments need to be done on site.

the industry was given an opportunity to implement improvements.

it didn't.

Re: Australia to ban engineered stone

#382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps, though still my experience seeing building sites in the UK still seems to have way more health and safety and risk assessments. As I said in the other comment, in Germany it's not rare at all to see road workers with heavy machinery, fumes, and dust, who are wearing no ear protection, no goggles, no mask, and no hard hat. That would be an extremely rare sight in the UK.

I was recently in Malta and saw a bloke in shorts and t-shirt start angle grinding into the pavement in the middle of a busy road. Definitely would never see that in the UK.

Sadly that is not an uncommon sight around where I am in London, where there is a high number of Eastern European tradespeople who either know no better or simply don't care.

Re: Australia to ban engineered stone

#383
post #169

It's very much worth reading the full reasoning within the SafeWork decision (page 56): https://www.safeworkaustralia.gov.au/sites/default/files/202... SafeWork's view is that the industry is too much of a non-compliant mess to recommend any other option apart from a complete ban.

To protect the workers we must fire them.

Re: Australia to ban engineered stone

#384

Ridiculous like everything politicians do. They could ban installation that is not precut with machines, or the usage of tools without dust handling but banning the entire field is just crazy. With today technology you can 3d scan the dimensions, water cut with automatic machines and only minor adjustments need to be done on site.

Sure. And asbestos is safe if handled correctly. But it never works out that way. Costs are cut. Companies want to make more profit. And who pays? The low paid workers.

I spent 15 years as a "low paid worker" doing manual labour, and in my experience (which of course will vary), the lack of following PPE procedures is usually not due to the lack of PPE or procedures. In a factory setting or larger worksite, with managers and supervisors abound, it's relatively easy to enforce PPE standards. On a remote worksite where there is one or two people installing a countertop, for example, it's extremely hard. A company can provide all the PPE needed but it's up to the worker to actually use it.

I don't want to apologize for companies, as many will supply the bare minimum/cheapest PPE. Have you ever wore a n95 while doing physical labour? It really sucks.

On the other hand, I've worked on job sites where there was an unlimited budget for PPE. Don't like working in an N95? No issues ordering a $1200 battery powered forced air respirator mask. People would still not wear them sometimes.

For these reason I agree with banning things like this. Even with the best PPE in the world people are still not going to use it when it's an inconvenience/uncomfortable.

Re: Australia to ban engineered stone

#385
post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe. Or it's the dose, which sounds quite high when working with engineered stone.

Or the size of the particles. Cutting engineered stone has been shown to generate large quantities of extremely fine particles (< 1 µm). Cutting natural stone or driving on a dirt road, the typical particle sizes are much larger.

Why isn’t it being cut wet? Surely if dust is the problem, water is the solution.

Re: Australia to ban engineered stone

#386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s incredible how bad tradies are at PPE. When my solar panels were being installed on my house, the electrician was happily about to drill through asbestos cement eave lining before I stopped him, and at least made him put on a disposable P2 respirator mask I had lying around. But he still released asbestos fibres into the air and the ceiling cavity where his colleagues were working, and will have got it on his cl…

Sadly no better here in Germany, which surprised me. In the UK health and safety is much more extreme. Here in Germany it’s rare to see workers taking any kind of safety precautions

I've seen some behavior on German job sites that blows my mind as an Australian (and from this discussion it's pretty clear Aussie tradies aren't saints).

Zero compliance with hard hats, straddling a 4th story window without fall protection, incredibly sketchy scaffolding, dust everywhere etc. I was half expecting a worker fatality at some point.

Though I'm not sure I'd blame the Germans (other than for very lax oversight) it was an entirely Eastern European work crew. Which seems to be the case for many job sites around here. Bunch of young folks hustling for money to take home with zero regard for health and safety.

Re: Australia to ban engineered stone

#387
post #169

It's very much worth reading the full reasoning within the SafeWork decision (page 56): https://www.safeworkaustralia.gov.au/sites/default/files/202... SafeWork's view is that the industry is too much of a non-compliant mess to recommend any other option apart from a complete ban.

The logic here is that if an industry can only be made safe with strict PPE standards, but the market dynamics make it difficult to ensure compliance with those standards, then it is OK to ban the industry.

That seems a pretty concerning stance for small businesses. What's next? Ban microbreweries because they don't properly manage the risks of CO2 asphyxiation? Ban small-shop mechanics because they routinely get brake fluid on their hands?

Well-enforced safety regulations are a good thing for everyone. Banning small businesses because regulating them is hard seems... economically undesirable.

Re: Australia to ban engineered stone

#388
post #169

It's very much worth reading the full reasoning within the SafeWork decision (page 56): https://www.safeworkaustralia.gov.au/sites/default/files/202... SafeWork's view is that the industry is too much of a non-compliant mess to recommend any other option apart from a complete ban.

To protect the workers we must fire them.

It's not like whatever the demand that the engineered stone currently fills suddenly disappears so those workers will be able to find other similar jobs.

Re: Australia to ban engineered stone

#389
post #169

It's very much worth reading the full reasoning within the SafeWork decision (page 56): https://www.safeworkaustralia.gov.au/sites/default/files/202... SafeWork's view is that the industry is too much of a non-compliant mess to recommend any other option apart from a complete ban.

To protect the workers we must fire them.

Several construction workers' unions campaigned to get this ban in place.

The only party in opposition were the engineered stone vendors.

Re: Australia to ban engineered stone

#390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is probably going to cause the price of large format porcelain bench tops down. They have less silica content than artificial stone and granite. I believe they are also cut to size off-site.

You mean up, right? Forcing demand into a product drives the price up.

Only short-term unless the supply is static.
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