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Tesla Recalls 2M Cars to Fix Autopilot Safety Flaws

bloomberg.com

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Re: Tesla Recalls 2M Cars to Fix Autopilot Safety Flaws

#121

Post by braunshedd »

freedomben wrote: post #62
ceejayoz wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My car has sensors to detect when a passenger isn't wearing a seat belt and to blast an ear-hurting alarm directly at the driver. It's so loud that it's actually a safety issue in itself because it's hard to focus on driving when there is a blaring alarm in your face. What make and model is this?

2023 Toyota Sienna

I just disabled all of these warnings on my Toyota with a third party OBDII reader and the Carista app, which also comes with lots of other fun options to fiddle with. Only thing I haven't figured out is how to disable the chime on startup!

Re: Tesla Recalls 2M Cars to Fix Autopilot Safety Flaws

#122

Post by meibo »

freedomben wrote: post #28

I really wonder where we're headed (in general, not specifically with Teslas) regarding technologies requirements to "do enough to prevent misuse." These requirements are already a major thorn in my side. My car has sensors to detect when a passenger isn't wearing a seat belt and to blast an ear-hurting alarm directly at the driver. It's so loud that it's actually a safety issue in itself because it's hard to focus o…

> For example, if I put my backpack on the passenger seat

Not trying to say that you're wrong, but an unsecured, heavy backpack is a real safety risk in even minor accidents. From the impact pattern, it's like having a pet or a baby in the front seat and not securing it.

Re: Tesla Recalls 2M Cars to Fix Autopilot Safety Flaws

#123

Post by b7we5b7a »

epups wrote: post #88
comboy wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that the case, perhaps you should feel that way every time you are near a road. Without commenting on autopilot performance, there are enough drivers who are worse. Maybe autopilot just helps you realize that you are not really fully in control about everything that may happen.

I've been driving with other people on the road for years. People might be worse on average but at least they don't get a firmware update that could potentially kill you.

If people are worse on average, on average they'll cause more accidents.

They won't get a firmware update, but they'll get an IM while they're late, won't pull over to reply, and ran you over at full speed instead of trying to slow down.

Re: Tesla Recalls 2M Cars to Fix Autopilot Safety Flaws

#124

Post by haswell »

ceejayoz wrote: post #106
palemoonale wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not. As pointed out, opening and re-closing isn't uncommon, especially in winter. Stop defending nannyfying conditioning.

> As pointed out, opening and re-closing isn't uncommon, especially in winter. Where is this pointed out? Opening and closing the doors at highway speed is not common, winter or otherwise. I'm fine with "nannifying" cars when it gets these results. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transportation_safety_in_the_U...

It’s an oversimplification to conclude that the drop in deaths is just from “nannyifying” cars. There have been major improvements to vehicle frames, roll safety, crumple zones, etc that all play a major role in that graph.

And adding safety features to cars is one thing. Indiscriminately slamming on the brakes without context is another.

A feature has to actually lead to safer outcomes. Braking hard when opening the door is highly questionable.

Re: Tesla Recalls 2M Cars to Fix Autopilot Safety Flaws

#125

Post by stetrain »

kbos87 wrote: post #11

The details are scant, but it sounds like the vehicle is going to be quicker to disable autopilot if it thinks you aren’t paying attention. I’m curious to see what this amounts to because Autopilot is already pretty sensitive to this. Pick up your phone or look away from the road for more than a few seconds and the in-cabin car notices and warns you. I don’t know of a comparable system in any car with self driving or…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driver_monitoring_system

Re: Tesla Recalls 2M Cars to Fix Autopilot Safety Flaws

#126

Post by Robotbeat »

windexh8er wrote: post #30
brightball wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did it kill people?

From this article [0] in October of 2023"...Autopilot have been involved in more than 700 crashes, at least 19 of them fatal, since its introduction in 2014..." [0] https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/interactive/2023/t...

Since autopilot is used on a substantial fraction (one third?) of miles driven by Teslas, this is another way of saying that Teslas are not yet invincible to crashes.

Re: Tesla Recalls 2M Cars to Fix Autopilot Safety Flaws

#127

Post by OJFord »

mackman wrote: post #5
not_your_vase wrote: post #2

We should either stop calling these recalls, or news sites should announce iOS and Android updates in a similar manner also > Apple is recalling 45 Brazilion iPhones and iPads to fix software flaw

If the FCC mandated Apple deploy an update to reduce phones catching fire then yes, I would use the term recall. For bugs that don’t fall into the safety or regulatory compliance category I would not.

I think it makes sense in terms of 'v1.2.3 recall', whatever the version is, i.e. that particular version may no longer be shipped; shipped instances of it/licences for it will be 'recalled', however unlike hardware recalls where it needs to be physically taken in for servicing it may be possible to perform this remotely.

Re: Tesla Recalls 2M Cars to Fix Autopilot Safety Flaws

#128

Post by jader201 »

comboy wrote: post #45
rabbits_2002 wrote: post #41

unrelated, but does anyone else start to panic in autonomous vehicles? Every time I have been in a Tesla with autopilot on I immediately feel dread and and impending doom and I get very anxious.

If that the case, perhaps you should feel that way every time you are near a road. Without commenting on autopilot performance, there are enough drivers who are worse. Maybe autopilot just helps you realize that you are not really fully in control about everything that may happen.

> Without commenting on autopilot performance, there are enough drivers who are worse.

To be fair, you really can’t compare the performance of drivers to Autopilot, without commenting on Autopilot performance.

Many people’s anxiety with it is exactly due to lack of confidence in Autopilot, and (relatively) more confidence in humans.

I’m not arguing which one is worse, I’m just saying you can’t make the comparison without commenting on the performance of both (by definition, required for making a comparison).

Re: Tesla Recalls 2M Cars to Fix Autopilot Safety Flaws

#129

Post by ceejayoz »

haswell wrote: post #124
ceejayoz wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As pointed out, opening and re-closing isn't uncommon, especially in winter. Where is this pointed out? Opening and closing the doors at highway speed is not common, winter or otherwise. I'm fine with "nannifying" cars when it gets these results. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transportation_safety_in_the_U...

It’s an oversimplification to conclude that the drop in deaths is just from “nannyifying” cars. There have been major improvements to vehicle frames, roll safety, crumple zones, etc that all play a major role in that graph. And adding safety features to cars is one thing. Indiscriminately slamming on the brakes without context is another. A feature has to actually lead to safer outcomes. Braking hard when opening the…

> There have been major improvements to vehicle frames, roll safety, crumple zones, etc that all play a major role in that graph.

The people who decry the "nanny state" tend to oppose requirements for these, as well. You'll find plenty of people moaning about how they don't make cars like they used to, that bumpers require expensive replacement in low-speed impacts, that all this extra metal is expensive, etc.

> Indiscriminately slamming on the brakes without context is another.

I wouldn't call "when the driver door opens at speed" to be "indiscriminate". I don't doubt the sudden decceleration is a bit surprising (and it probably quickly trains you out of opening the door mid-drive), but if someone rear-ends you because of this that's clearly their fault for following too closely.

Re: Tesla Recalls 2M Cars to Fix Autopilot Safety Flaws

#130

Post by WirelessGigabit »

peteradio wrote: post #32
freedomben wrote: post #28

I really wonder where we're headed (in general, not specifically with Teslas) regarding technologies requirements to "do enough to prevent misuse." These requirements are already a major thorn in my side. My car has sensors to detect when a passenger isn't wearing a seat belt and to blast an ear-hurting alarm directly at the driver. It's so loud that it's actually a safety issue in itself because it's hard to focus o…

Agreed. I heard a story about a guy who is used to chewing tobacco while driving and would crack open the door and spit while moving at speed. He tried doing this in his son's new jeep and the car immediately slammed on the brakes and nearly caused an accident. Obviously cracking the door to spit out the bottom isn't too safe but slamming on the brakes? What why?

If that functionality was around sooner we wouldn't have lost Antony Yelchin.
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