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Swedish court rules against Tesla in dispute with postal service over deliveries

reuters.com

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Re: Swedish court rules against Tesla in dispute with postal service over deliveries

#201

Post by andsoitis »

cardy31 wrote: post #177
ajross wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a sympathy strike involves a union deciding to take industrial action against an organisation to support another unions industrial action Interestingly that's not quite what's happening either. The workers in question are not in a union. IF Metall is the union being supported, and merely wants to represent them (more correctly, they don't want a non-union shop operating in their market). Everyone is just nuts here.…

My understanding is that the various unions view Tesla’s actions as a threat to how labour works in Sweden. There apparently isn’t even a minimum wage in the country as everything is governed by these collective agreements. So if they let Tesla come in and not play by the rules it could open the floodgates for other large corporations to come in and do the same, slowly eroding the system.

> So if they let Tesla come in and not play by the rules

Tesla complies with the country's laws, no?

Re: Swedish court rules against Tesla in dispute with postal service over deliveries

#202

Post by randall »

danielovichdk wrote: post #181

Fuck these companies that think they can break the unions our former generations built for the purpose of being treated fair. Americans don't get it. We Scandinavians are not built on a cultural foundation which circles around creating our own safety nets. We are not lucky. We worked hard for it for hundreds of years. Same thing goes for Wolt or Uber etc. They are not welcome here if they can't treat workers by their…

Can you tell me more about the safety net thing? As an American I actually don’t understand that point. Are you saying culturally your family wouldn’t feel obligated to be a safety net if another family member was struggling? And that the unions defacto provide that sort of guarantee?

Re: Swedish court rules against Tesla in dispute with postal service over deliveries

#203

Post by InCityDreams »

suoduandao3 wrote: post #141
throw_a_grenade wrote: post #126

> Musk said last week: “I disagree with the idea of unions. I just don’t like anything which creates a lords-and-peasants kind of thing.” This sounds ridiculous.

A lot of what Musk says and does sounds ridiculous. That doesn't make it wise to dismiss out of hand. I actually agree that a lot of unions reinforce an us-vs-them mentality that might be necessary in local disputes but certainly isn't as good as having everyone's incentives aligned. What I think Musk might be missing in this context is that European unions have a deep history in the guild system and are related not…

I'm in a far away eu country. I am surprised at the amount of support for the unions there is on this. From all sides. Don't forget- a country may have a rw .gov - that doesn't necessarily equate to the majority supporting them, or their pov's. We'd mostly just like a decent wage.

Re: Swedish court rules against Tesla in dispute with postal service over deliveries

#204

Post by VoxPelli »

rob74 wrote: post #123

> A Swedish court said on Thursday that PostNord did not, for the time being, need to deliver licence plates to the electric carmaker that were being blocked by the postal service’s workers, in the latest twist in a battle over collective bargaining agreements. How exactly is this done? Do they refuse to accept the license plates when the Swedish Transport Agency wants to drop them off? Or do they accept the plates,…

The postal workers doesn’t care what it is that’s delivered to Tesla, nothing is delivered, but apparently Tesla is only upset about the license plates

So it’s all about the receiver, and it’s not the only reason one can have to refuse to deliver, in other cases safety and work environment has been cited.

I’m not sure what happens with the mail though, if it’s sent back to the sender or put in piles

Re: Swedish court rules against Tesla in dispute with postal service over deliveries

#205

Post by fallingknife »

cardy31 wrote: post #177
ajross wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a sympathy strike involves a union deciding to take industrial action against an organisation to support another unions industrial action Interestingly that's not quite what's happening either. The workers in question are not in a union. IF Metall is the union being supported, and merely wants to represent them (more correctly, they don't want a non-union shop operating in their market). Everyone is just nuts here.…

My understanding is that the various unions view Tesla’s actions as a threat to how labour works in Sweden. There apparently isn’t even a minimum wage in the country as everything is governed by these collective agreements. So if they let Tesla come in and not play by the rules it could open the floodgates for other large corporations to come in and do the same, slowly eroding the system.

Yeah I think that's correct. The unions here are not acting as representatives of Tesla workers to negotiate with Tesla, but rather as cartels trying to prevent two willing parties (Tesla and its employees) from doing business without cutting in the union.

I had no idea that unions could operate like this. I thought unions were tools to gain workers leverage against their employers, which I obviously support. I find this cartel action repulsive and I don't see how it could be done here in the US without violating anti trust.

Re: Swedish court rules against Tesla in dispute with postal service over deliveries

#206

Post by networkchad »

peterpost2 wrote: post #165
that_guy_iain wrote: post #144

Why do I have the feeling one of the main outcomes of this is PostNord loses business of deliverying the license plates and other courier gets the tender instead?

That's tricky in Sweden, PostNord is by a far distance the best delivery mechanism (it customer service still sucks though), if you go far up North or rural many other delivery services are hard to find. There is a lot of things to be said about PostNord but its most reliable.

[dead]

Re: Swedish court rules against Tesla in dispute with postal service over deliveries

#207

Post by emptysongglass »

suoduandao3 wrote: post #141
throw_a_grenade wrote: post #126

> Musk said last week: “I disagree with the idea of unions. I just don’t like anything which creates a lords-and-peasants kind of thing.” This sounds ridiculous.

A lot of what Musk says and does sounds ridiculous. That doesn't make it wise to dismiss out of hand. I actually agree that a lot of unions reinforce an us-vs-them mentality that might be necessary in local disputes but certainly isn't as good as having everyone's incentives aligned. What I think Musk might be missing in this context is that European unions have a deep history in the guild system and are related not…

> I actually agree that a lot of unions reinforce an us-vs-them mentality

In America, yes. Painting Scandinavian unions as fomenting an us-vs-them mentality is more misunderstanding from people who don't understand what it's like to live and work here.

Re: Swedish court rules against Tesla in dispute with postal service over deliveries

#208

Post by Gravityloss »

One can see multiple confident and very different explanations in these threads. They can't all be correct at the same time. But at least it's people trying to unwrap what's going on and there are good responses and back and forths et.

Re: Swedish court rules against Tesla in dispute with postal service over deliveries

#209

Post by rsynnott »

that_guy_iain wrote: post #144

Why do I have the feeling one of the main outcomes of this is PostNord loses business of deliverying the license plates and other courier gets the tender instead?

It being Sweden, the other couriers are probably unionised.

Re: Swedish court rules against Tesla in dispute with postal service over deliveries

#210

Post by that_guy_iain »

SwedishExpat wrote: post #147
that_guy_iain wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't the union have a vote to decide these things. So it is "workers decision" and that's actually very important as far as I can tell for the legal dispute. PostNord says it can't force it's workers to do something. So if it's not the workers decision it's PostNord's decision and that is very different.

> Doesn't the union have a vote to decide these things This was decided by Seko's union board, the union that covers most PostNord and other delivery companies employees > PostNord says it can't force it's workers to do something It is illegal to prevent a strike, yes > So if it's not the workers decision it's PostNord's decision and that is very different It's the unions decision https://www-seko-se.translate.goog/p…

So what you're saying is the union is forcing them to not deliver to Tesla?
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