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Swedish court rules against Tesla in dispute with postal service over deliveries

reuters.com

141–150 of 409 posts

Re: Swedish court rules against Tesla in dispute with postal service over deliveries

#141

> Musk said last week: “I disagree with the idea of unions. I just don’t like anything which creates a lords-and-peasants kind of thing.” This sounds ridiculous.

A lot of what Musk says and does sounds ridiculous. That doesn't make it wise to dismiss out of hand.

I actually agree that a lot of unions reinforce an us-vs-them mentality that might be necessary in local disputes but certainly isn't as good as having everyone's incentives aligned. What I think Musk might be missing in this context is that European unions have a deep history in the guild system and are related not just to bargaining with employers but also disseminating best practices and standards, so they add a lot of value as well.

Re: Swedish court rules against Tesla in dispute with postal service over deliveries

#142

This article uses the words "workers' decision" several times which sounds like individual workers are deciding to not deliver to Tesla. The truth is that a sympathy strike involves a union deciding to take industrial action against an organisation to support another unions industrial action. So these workers are legally striking against Tesla too, it's not just an ad hoc decision made by individuals. PostNord employ…

Doesn't the union have a vote to decide these things. So it is "workers decision" and that's actually very important as far as I can tell for the legal dispute. PostNord says it can't force it's workers to do something. So if it's not the workers decision it's PostNord's decision and that is very different.

Re: Swedish court rules against Tesla in dispute with postal service over deliveries

#143

> Musk said last week: “I disagree with the idea of unions. I just don’t like anything which creates a lords-and-peasants kind of thing.” This sounds ridiculous.

More like; Unions give the peasants power when negotiating with the lords.

I guess he knows that and I guess that is the real reason he dislikes them.

Re: Swedish court rules against Tesla in dispute with postal service over deliveries

#145
post #123

> A Swedish court said on Thursday that PostNord did not, for the time being, need to deliver licence plates to the electric carmaker that were being blocked by the postal service’s workers, in the latest twist in a battle over collective bargaining agreements. How exactly is this done? Do they refuse to accept the license plates when the Swedish Transport Agency wants to drop them off? Or do they accept the plates,…

It's not clear to me who owns the license plate. Maybe it's the state who is the owner. I know the old plate must be destroyed when a new plate is issued.

Re: Swedish court rules against Tesla in dispute with postal service over deliveries

#146
Tesla is shooting itself in the foot by not being pragmatic.

Norway, Sweden, and Denmark are combined the 3rd biggest market for Tesla. During some months we even edge out China temporarily becoming Tesla's 2nd biggest market.

The way our unions are being portrayed by Americans is ridiculous. Even pro-union Americans are making our unions sound far more aggressive and subversive than they actually are. A "blockade" just means no unionized workers and truck drivers want to offload and transport your products and supplies. It doesn't mean a literal blockade.

Re: Swedish court rules against Tesla in dispute with postal service over deliveries

#147

This article uses the words "workers' decision" several times which sounds like individual workers are deciding to not deliver to Tesla. The truth is that a sympathy strike involves a union deciding to take industrial action against an organisation to support another unions industrial action. So these workers are legally striking against Tesla too, it's not just an ad hoc decision made by individuals. PostNord employ…

Doesn't the union have a vote to decide these things. So it is "workers decision" and that's actually very important as far as I can tell for the legal dispute. PostNord says it can't force it's workers to do something. So if it's not the workers decision it's PostNord's decision and that is very different.

> Doesn't the union have a vote to decide these things

This was decided by Seko's union board, the union that covers most PostNord and other delivery companies employees

> PostNord says it can't force it's workers to do something

It is illegal to prevent a strike, yes

> So if it's not the workers decision it's PostNord's decision and that is very different

It's the unions decision

https://www-seko-se.translate.goog/press-och-aktuellt/nyhete...

https://www.seko.se/siteassets/pdf-seko.se/avtal/konflikt/fa...

Re: Swedish court rules against Tesla in dispute with postal service over deliveries

#148

> Musk said last week: “I disagree with the idea of unions. I just don’t like anything which creates a lords-and-peasants kind of thing.” This sounds ridiculous.

He probably said quite a bit more than just that. If you extract just one sentence from somebody's position, you can make anyone look ridiculous.

Looking at this from a distance and without picking sides, I can see both sides have a point and a bigger agenda. The actual conflict seems like it is a sideshow to this bigger agenda.

In Scandinavia the unions are historically very strong. Strong as in they are mostly socialist leaning countries where the socialists have set policies for decades backed by very strong unions that dictate how companies operate. Not just Tesla, all companies. The message is fall in line, or else we'll cripple your company. And it's a message not just to Tesla but to all companies.

One little problem though, Sweden doesn't actually have a socialist government currently. Neither does Denmark. And Norway has a minority socialist government coalition. So, socialists are fresh out of power all over Scandinavia and struggling a bit. Also as Tesla workers aren't unionized. These unions aren't representing those workers directly. This is part of their grudge. So, unions feel a need to assert themselves and reclaim some power. And they are using Tesla to do it. Perfect company for fanning the outrage a little and Elon Musk is always happy to offend anyone with incendiary statements. But you have to see it for what this is: political posturing by the unions.

With Tesla the agenda is that they are a multinational and they are investing billions world wide in creating giga-factories and lots of employment and they are looking to get the best deals for this. Governments are lobbying them heavily for being the next giga factory site. So, what's the signal Elon Musk is giving off with to those governments by doing this in Sweden? Get the unions of my back if you want my money. So, he's happy to let this escalate a little. It works wonders elsewhere. The big picture for him is getting favorable conditions to build his next giga factory elsewhere in Europe. The Swedish are just pawns in that game. My guess is he'll ultimately fold in some way to keep the Scandinavian market going. But forget about a Swedish giga-factory happening.

Re: Swedish court rules against Tesla in dispute with postal service over deliveries

#150

> Musk said last week: “I disagree with the idea of unions. I just don’t like anything which creates a lords-and-peasants kind of thing.” This sounds ridiculous.

Of course it's ridiculous. Unions have historically been key to helping equalize the power between employers and employees. Musk knows this and it's clear that he thinks of people working for his companies as peasants that only deserve what he's willing to dole out.

My wife owns a company, it boggles my mind how the employees underestimate their strength.

They work for fractions and they are necessary for the company.

If a worker knows an owner is desperate, the worker can win. The opposite is true too.

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