Swedish court rules against Tesla in dispute with postal service over deliveries
121–130 of 409 posts
Re: Swedish court rules against Tesla in dispute with postal service over deliveries
#122This article uses the words "workers' decision" several times which sounds like individual workers are deciding to not deliver to Tesla. The truth is that a sympathy strike involves a union deciding to take industrial action against an organisation to support another unions industrial action. So these workers are legally striking against Tesla too, it's not just an ad hoc decision made by individuals.
PostNord employees could not just decide to stop sending parcels to a company without it being part of a directed strike.
Re: Swedish court rules against Tesla in dispute with postal service over deliveries
#123> A Swedish court said on Thursday that PostNord did not, for the time being, need to deliver licence plates to the electric carmaker that were being blocked by the postal service’s workers, in the latest twist in a battle over collective bargaining agreements.
How exactly is this done? Do they refuse to accept the license plates when the Swedish Transport Agency wants to drop them off? Or do they accept the plates, but refuse to deliver them? The former would be more or less ok, but the latter would amount to theft (taking the property of someone else and refusing to give it to them). I don't agree with Tesla's anti-union practices, just curious...
Re: Swedish court rules against Tesla in dispute with postal service over deliveries
#124This article uses the words "workers' decision" several times which sounds like individual workers are deciding to not deliver to Tesla. The truth is that a sympathy strike involves a union deciding to take industrial action against an organisation to support another unions industrial action. So these workers are legally striking against Tesla too, it's not just an ad hoc decision made by individuals. PostNord employ…
We say "voters" when we mean their representatives too so this doesn't strike me as surprising even if you could argue that it's not really their decision if it's a representative system rather than one of delegation (where each delegate represents one or more people directly who can at any time withdraw their vote from them and vote directly or choose a different delegate). I don't know how Swedish unions are structured though.
But yes, this is a solidarity strike and should be described as such to avoid confusion or ambiguity. It's interesting to see this play out as solidarity strikes are explicitly forbidden by law in my country (Germany) and while strikes and unions are granted many legal protections (e.g. a company under strike is not allowed to hire temporary strike breakers to substitute the striking workers, though they can use their existing non-striking workers), the law also explicitly restricts strikes to the company the workers are employed by. This is presumably meant to "tame" unions and prevent larger organized action, solidarity strikes or even a general strike (which would not be placing demands on the employer but e.g. the government).
Re: Swedish court rules against Tesla in dispute with postal service over deliveries
#125Earlier quoted context omitted.
How does a country give workers more power? By creating a business-friendly environment. The more companies operate in your country, the more choice of employers. Treated badly? Go work for a competitor. That’s how you put pressure on companies to treat staff better.
Well, we see how that's going in America and it's a race to the bottom. 10 years experience, bachelor's degree required, starting pay of $35k/yr. A society cannot rely on a business whose sole motivation is profitability to provide power to what they view as a liability, not an asset.
Plus the US is very work cultured your entire identify is what your job is. In many countries of the world a job is a job and your life and family are the important things not your job. Of course we need money but what is the point if your life is crap!
Re: Swedish court rules against Tesla in dispute with postal service over deliveries
#126> Musk said last week: “I disagree with the idea of unions. I just don’t like anything which creates a lords-and-peasants kind of thing.”
This sounds ridiculous.
Re: Swedish court rules against Tesla in dispute with postal service over deliveries
#127> Musk said last week: “I disagree with the idea of unions. I just don’t like anything which creates a lords-and-peasants kind of thing.” This sounds ridiculous.
Of course it's ridiculous. Unions have historically been key to helping equalize the power between employers and employees. Musk knows this and it's clear that he thinks of people working for his companies as peasants that only deserve what he's willing to dole out.
Re: Swedish court rules against Tesla in dispute with postal service over deliveries
#128Small differences in labor law make all the difference. In Finland, Tesla repair shops follow the minimums stated in collective agreements and Musk probably don't even know about it. In Sweden it's issue for him. Finland has generally applicable collective agreements where employers should observe at least the provisions of a national collective agreement considered representative in the relevant sector. When a colle…
At this point the famed Swedish model shows its limits, IMHO. > "It's about the Swedish collective agreement model, and there is a consensus on it, both politically and between the parties in the labour market, Seko's president Gabriella Lavecchia told Reuters by email. And yet this is not a legal obligation, as far as I understand, and Tesla is acting lawfully. So the model seems to be that there are unwritten rules…
Tesla doesn't have to agree but then the workers don't have to stop striking. It's called collective bargaining for a reason. It's no less unreasonable for the workers to keep striking until Tesla gives up than it is for Tesla to try to have its way and sit on their thumbs until the strikes end. There's just no good outcome for Tesla in the latter case.
This isn't about some sort of grandiose libertarian stand. Whether this behavior by Tesla is influenced by Musk or not, it perfectly matches his attitude to workers' rights, consumer protection laws and so on. At one point he explicitly stated that the US Democrat party was being controlled by unions and class action lawyers. Contrast this with Musk's excuses for censoring Twitter in Turkey when the Turkish government threatened to block Twitter. He doesn't stand up to "bullies" or "authoritarians", he just doesn't like being told what he can or can't do by those he sees as beneath him (e.g. workers insisting on adherence to workplace safety laws or industry standard compensation schemes).
Re: Swedish court rules against Tesla in dispute with postal service over deliveries
#129Re: Swedish court rules against Tesla in dispute with postal service over deliveries
#130Earlier quoted context omitted.
Or, they could research the business climate and laws in a country before establishing a presence. Then feel free to buck established practice, but at least know the potential consequences.
Sure, in that case maybe Tesla would never have entered Sweden, but what good is that? It's bad for Sweden, Tesla, and the environment. Discovering this Swedish 'quirk' then vs. now wouldn't make Tesla any more likely to roll over to extralegal bullying tactics.
> Sure, in that case maybe Tesla would never have entered Sweden, but what good is that? It's bad for Sweden, Tesla, and the environment.
How exactly would it be "bad for Sweden" if Tesla never had entered? Tesla is just another large company. Why would it bad for Sweden if Tesla didn't enter their market because Tesla didn't want to comport itself according to Swedish laws and customs?