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Swedish Tesla strike goes international as Norwegian and Danish unions join in

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Re: Swedish Tesla strike goes international as Norwegian and Danish unions join in

#421

Post by orwin »

bee_rider wrote: post #413
orwin wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please, if you want to call it pseudo-something, call it pseudo-state agency. The government own nothing except their personal stuff, hopefully. Its owned by the State. Two of them even. One of them can call for a board meeting and fire the CEO (who does not have any right to force his employees). But it is not owned by the government. Please continue the discussion,i just wanted it out.

That’s fair, I was just sticking to the language used in the comment I responded to. Of course, it is an easy mistake for those of us in the US to make; we tend to use “government” more generally. I guess because we used the name “states” for our province-sized administrative unit thingies.

Yeah, it wasn't against you or your take, it was the nth post saying it and it bothered me. I also just wanted to disagree with some on the internet because I'm procrastinating.

Re: Swedish Tesla strike goes international as Norwegian and Danish unions join in

#422

Post by appleskeptic »

Hikikomori wrote: post #44
appleskeptic wrote: post #2

Striking should be legal, but firing employees for striking should also be legal.

Why stop there? Should to back to the good old days of Pinkertons and military having a small scale war with strikers. And corporations knowingly letting workers work in conditions that will kill them to earns a few dollars more. Only someone ignorant of history can spout nonsense like this.

No, we shouldn't. But anyone committing assaults on either side should be prosecuted. Much easier to do these days than back then.

Re: Swedish Tesla strike goes international as Norwegian and Danish unions join in

#423

Post by kwere »

eggy wrote: post #196
eckesicle wrote: post #25

> Postal workers even decided not to deliver mail to the electric automaker, including license plates – an action that Musk called "insane". The local court has since put a stop to that action. This is no longer true. A higher court overturned that decision and the license plates are again blocked from reaching Tesla.

Wow, Scandinavia - Big Brother's Man Cave! No substantial bad factory conditions or request for higher pay, "just agree to collective bargaining agreements, that's all." I was a welder back in NY in 1997, and joined a company and I was told by the Union's lackey that joining the union was voluntary. At the end of my three months, the thug came looking for dues. He clarified, "it's voluntary, you can take another job.…

Unions are too adversarial in relation with business owners/managers for a Pareto efficency in most of modern economies. What they do mostly is forcing a price on labour due to their cartel like strenght, when they are not sitting on their asses.

Re: Swedish Tesla strike goes international as Norwegian and Danish unions join in

#424

Post by martin8412 »

timwaagh wrote: post #190
s0l1dsnak3123 wrote: post #121

Maybe - just maybe - Tesla should just give in instead of destroying their brand in the Nordics, which is what they are doing. The workers are in charge, and they are also the ones buying Teslas (Yes Americans, in Sweden/Denmark/Norway Teslas are affordable enough for normal people who are in unions because they are paid correctly). Maybe it's a good idea not to destroy your entire market while also destroying the me…

I do not for a second believe ordinary workers can outright buy Teslas in Sweden or Denmark.

Depends on what you mean by ordinary workers. But a lot of people can. A Model 3 is not a status symbol at all. Same with Model Y. They're just.. People movers. What makes Teslas expensive is its repairability, and therefore insurance.

Re: Swedish Tesla strike goes international as Norwegian and Danish unions join in

#425

Post by renewiltord »

wyager wrote: post #258
mfi wrote: post #117

> "In the light of the conflict now spreading to Denmark as well as Tesla's recent very categorical refusal to enter a labour union agreement in any country, we have come to the conclusion that we as investors at present hardly can influence the company," the pension fund said in an emailed statement. ... That is why we're now putting Tesla on our exclusion list, ..." PensionDanmark, one of Denmark's largest pension…

Anyone know of an ETF that buys stocks excluded by activist funds?

Matt Levine writes about this now and then. Should be a good starting point https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2022-10-11/anti-e...

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2022-01-12/not-ev...

Re: Swedish Tesla strike goes international as Norwegian and Danish unions join in

#426

Post by alexanderchr »

belltaco wrote: post #374
alexanderchr wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of guessing here. There is an exclusive contract between the Swedish state and the postal company. There is also a contract that forbids the plate manufacturer from sending plates by any other means than post. Transportstyrelsen does not agree that the current strike counts as a force majeure. This is (essentially) what the court case is about. Lower court agreed with you and allowed them to pick up plates thems…

> Transportstyrelsen does not agree that the current strike counts as a force majeure That's interesting, I wonder what their reasoning is, I thought strikes were included in the definition of force majeure in the law. > There is an exclusive contract between the Swedish state and the postal company. There is also a contract that forbids the plate manufacturer from sending plates by any other means than post. Isn't t…

There is indeed such a law. There’s also a law saying that the state must provide me with a passport after I apply for one, but if their distribution system breaks down for whatever reason I cannot just show up at the passport making factory and demand my passport.

I think it’s obvious that Tesla will be allowed to get their plates sooner or later, and Transportstyrelsen does not seem to be of the view that they shouldn’t be. They are more concerned about the practicality and legality of letting them pick up the plates from the factory.

Re: Swedish Tesla strike goes international as Norwegian and Danish unions join in

#427

Post by carlosjobim »

lawn wrote: post #323
carlosjobim wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's perfectly legal, and you can find information about it on the websites of the unions.

You'll have to link to how they mention its fine for the employer to force sign you without your consent, and to sign you up for expensive insurance again without your consent.

You could just have found the information yourself, it's not difficult

Anyway, here's the link: https://www.sjofolk.se/nyheter/2022/medlem-automatiskt/

Now you have the truth right in front of you. Use a translator if you don't understand it.

I'd like for you to apologize for slandering me here in the comments and repeatedly calling me a liar. Will you do that, or will you just down vote and move on, like a hacker?

Re: Swedish Tesla strike goes international as Norwegian and Danish unions join in

#428

Post by Hikikomori »

1970-01-01 wrote: post #183
brightball wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At this point, I honestly just hope the standoff continues because I want to see how many moves each side has. This is really interesting to watch as somebody who isn't affected by it directly. Government workers deciding not to provide services to specific entities or people they are in dispute with is a bridge that I can only assume should have some pretty serious consequences.

The sad truth is there is plenty of room for Musk to make things much worse. I imagine he can deny them SpaceX payloads. Starlink was just made available to them as well. He could throttle or deny their uplinks and downlinks.

That will just get SpaceX sued for breach of contract.

Re: Swedish Tesla strike goes international as Norwegian and Danish unions join in

#429

Post by morelisp »

robertlagrant wrote: post #351
distances wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's just one company that doesn't play ball so a full strike wouldn't be appropriate reaction, especially as employers' organization apparently isn't a participant here. Say, striking dockworkers can paralyze the whole economy, all sectors. It's not a step to be taken lightly.

It's not just one company "not playing ball". Spotify, with ten times as many affected employees in Sweden, also doesn't have an agreement. > It's not a step to be taken lightly. Well, there's no balancing downside to doing it this way. Workers still get paid. So they can do this pretty lightly, assuming their employers allow them to just discriminate against certain customers.

It will be interesting to see how long Spotify keeps operating without an agreement given recent news.

Re: Swedish Tesla strike goes international as Norwegian and Danish unions join in

#430

Post by carlosjobim »

ivarmedi wrote: post #412
carlosjobim wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Or do you also belive that the nordics is full of socialists? Well, yes. Although the world is a lot more complicated than left vs right, the socialist parties have generally been the largest parties in Nordic countries, and the "conservative" parties do not rock the boat too much when they're in power. Because the voters wouldn't accept that. > compared to the USA It's a matter of taste and of values, but directly…

> Because the voters wouldn't accept that. So in other words the unions don't own the government so much as they own the voters (or is it the other way around)? I'd call a decision that voters agree on democracy. > The unions "own" the government in the extent that they where tightly connected to the Socialist Democratic party that ruled Sweden for decades and are responsible for much of today's legislation. If you w…

> So in other words the unions don't own the government so much as they own the voters (or is it the other way around)?

Yes, that's a good way to put it. Although memberships are rapidly decreasing in later years. The reasons for that can be saved for another discussion.

> Another explanation could be that both sides of the political spectrum agrees and thinks that the power re: labor decisions such as this _should_ lie with the unions, regardless of left/right lean. Even the "right" parties in Sweden are pro unions.

There really isn't any "both sides" of the political spectrum in Nordic countries when it comes to labour. The way the "right wing" parties can get elected at all is to say "We promise we're not going to do things differently than the left wing, but we'll give you a $100 more per year in tax deductions".

> Huh? This hasn't been the case on paper since the year 2000 in Sweden, but in practice far longer than that. The church might still be called "Church of Sweden", but it has nothing to do with the government.

It is still the case in Finland, Norway and Denmark. These countries have a government church, that performs government functions, and levies taxes to the church from your salary. You still have to fill in a form if you want to exit the government church. The year 2000 is not so far away, compared to when other nations separated church and state.

And AFAIK the former state church of Sweden (along with neighbouring countries) is still controlled by secular political parties, whose candidates are elected by church members. The largest church party by a huge margin being the Socialist Democrat party.

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