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Swedish Tesla strike goes international as Norwegian and Danish unions join in

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Re: Swedish Tesla strike goes international as Norwegian and Danish unions join in

#191

Post by jcpst »

mxsjoberg wrote: post #175
s0l1dsnak3123 wrote: post #121

Maybe - just maybe - Tesla should just give in instead of destroying their brand in the Nordics, which is what they are doing. The workers are in charge, and they are also the ones buying Teslas (Yes Americans, in Sweden/Denmark/Norway Teslas are affordable enough for normal people who are in unions because they are paid correctly). Maybe it's a good idea not to destroy your entire market while also destroying the me…

> Maybe Tesla is the problem here. No, this is an issue for other smaller companies too (with less media coverage) > Maybe the rest of the world needs to catch up to the societal norms of Sweden when it comes to worker's rights. I hope not. I kind of want a flying car ASAP. Not never.

Sorry everyone- forget about the union. This guy on HN wants a flying car, and we’ll never have that as long as unions exist.

Re: Swedish Tesla strike goes international as Norwegian and Danish unions join in

#192

Post by logifail »

vodou wrote: post #57
legitster wrote: post #31

I'm coming from a US perspective and trying to understand what is actually happening https://www.ifmetall.se/aktuellt/tesla/ Does IF Metall already represent all of Tesla's employees? Does that mean there are no active Tesla services in Sweden during the strike? If union membership is really the way of life in Sweden, is there anything preventing the government from a legislative solution? Just mandate collective agr…

Most of this goes back to the "Saltsjöbaden Agreement", https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saltsj%C3%B6baden_Agreement . To quote myself from the other day: "Basically, the government has left to the industry and unions to agree on a lot of stuff that is decided by law in other countries. E.g. Sweden does not have a minimum wage. This system has led to much fewer costly conflicts and strikes compared to many other countri…

> has left to the industry and unions to agree on a lot of stuff

(From the outside) it seems hard to understand why something should be effectively be mandatory without being officially mandatory.

If collective agreements are to be mandatory, the government should just pass a law making them mandatory, then that's done.

Hiding behind the claim "it's up to each employer and their employees" to decide is just silly.

Re: Swedish Tesla strike goes international as Norwegian and Danish unions join in

#193

Post by [deleted] »

JTyQZSnP3cQGa8B wrote: post #100
gottorf wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the postal service in question is private and works like a private company, though the states of Sweden and Denmark fully owns it. A "private company" that is fully owned by the government is private company in name only; hence my calling it a pseudo-government agency. Especially for a legally-privileged function that is serving postal mail.

We had the same conversation the last time it was posted. It’s exhausting. Sweden is not the USA.

[deleted]

Re: Swedish Tesla strike goes international as Norwegian and Danish unions join in

#194

Post by eddtries »

mxsjoberg wrote: post #175
s0l1dsnak3123 wrote: post #121

Maybe - just maybe - Tesla should just give in instead of destroying their brand in the Nordics, which is what they are doing. The workers are in charge, and they are also the ones buying Teslas (Yes Americans, in Sweden/Denmark/Norway Teslas are affordable enough for normal people who are in unions because they are paid correctly). Maybe it's a good idea not to destroy your entire market while also destroying the me…

> Maybe Tesla is the problem here. No, this is an issue for other smaller companies too (with less media coverage) > Maybe the rest of the world needs to catch up to the societal norms of Sweden when it comes to worker's rights. I hope not. I kind of want a flying car ASAP. Not never.

Hell yeah! Let's get those lazy workers on the lines working harder. Innovation and growth at all costs. Workers are cogs and if they're not behaving correctly they should be fixed or replaced. I, personally, am happy with a 21% illiteracy rate in America - workers don't need to be literate to make my flying cars faster.

Sweden might rank top for happiness and health but that's not going to make my bank numbers get higher for my annual two week holiday.

Re: Swedish Tesla strike goes international as Norwegian and Danish unions join in

#195

Post by messe »

pb7 wrote: post #164
messe wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fully owned by the state, not the government.

These terms usually mean the same thing. Do you want to explain the difference you're trying to highlight?

On this side of the atlantic at least, the government tends to just mean the prime minister / head of government and their cabinet (and to an extent the associated political parties in charge).

Re: Swedish Tesla strike goes international as Norwegian and Danish unions join in

#196

Post by eggy »

eckesicle wrote: post #25

> Postal workers even decided not to deliver mail to the electric automaker, including license plates – an action that Musk called "insane". The local court has since put a stop to that action. This is no longer true. A higher court overturned that decision and the license plates are again blocked from reaching Tesla.

Wow, Scandinavia - Big Brother's Man Cave!

No substantial bad factory conditions or request for higher pay, "just agree to collective bargaining agreements, that's all."

I was a welder back in NY in 1997, and joined a company and I was told by the Union's lackey that joining the union was voluntary. At the end of my three months, the thug came looking for dues. He clarified, "it's voluntary, you can take another job." Since then, the taste of a mobster mentality has steered me away from unions for the rest of my life. They once served a purpose, but my opinion is they have become less important and do not really do what they advertise.

The Swedish Trade Unions are dropping due to the ratio of native workers vs. immigrant workers, so it is a matter of time before the homogeneity of the population goes down, and trade unions with it. They're partially isolated from the EU, but too dependent to not suffer the coming collapse of the EU economies. Musk could just say FU to them too. With over 125,000 global employees, and a lot of countries subsidizing EVs to hide their real costs, the 170 Swedish laborers would quickly be out of a lot of work, and Sweden can buy other EVs and deal with them. The Tesla is most popular in Sweden, then Norway, and finally Denmark. The people who have already bought them would know who was responsible for them not being able to get their Tesla's fixed - not Elon, but their own government and unions. See how many other businesses get cold feet doing business in Scandinavia from this.

Maybe we'll see graveyards of Teslas in Scandinavia like we do of EVs due to failed startups in China. No win for anyone.

Re: Swedish Tesla strike goes international as Norwegian and Danish unions join in

#197

Post by [deleted] »

shtopointo wrote: post #136
kryptiskt wrote: post #22

The biggest problem for Tesla right now is that they can't get registration plates since the appeals court reversed the lower court's decision about allowing them to get them during the suit against the transport authority and failing to convince the court in the PostNord suit that they should get temporary relief during that suit.

Quite the precedent to set. Does this mean that any company operating in Denmark, that happens to be in a work dispute may have their mail stopped?

[deleted]

Re: Swedish Tesla strike goes international as Norwegian and Danish unions join in

#198

Post by ajmurmann »

distances wrote: post #181
eddtries wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They will have to give in or close shop. Simply two options available. Musk is pretty irrational when it comes to backing down so I suspect the latter. I was just about to buy a new Tesla when this kicked off and don’t fancy the risk of having a car I can’t service, so shopped around and discovered other EVs can be just as good with better build quality nowadays! So that’s a nice outcome for me.

The Finnish dock workers just announced that they are also joining the strike. Tesla would lose the whole Nordic market for something that surely is peanuts in the company scale. One could assume that an agreement would make financial sense.

What does it mean for Finnish dock workers to join? Are they refusing to load and unload Tesla shipments or are they striking generally?

Re: Swedish Tesla strike goes international as Norwegian and Danish unions join in

#199

Post by beirut_bootleg »

tshaddox wrote: post #122
yreg wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it insane that the workers of the state-owned postal office can decide what mail to deliver based on their personal views. What's next, the mass transit drivers refusing to stop near Tesla's offices? Court workers refusing to accept Tesla's lawsuits? Firemen refusing to put out fire on Tesla's properties?

It’s a strike. How could the workers be prohibited from deciding whether to strike?

By living and working in the U.S.. Most commenters here are wrongly assuming workers in Sweden have as little rights as they do, and probably just as exploited as well.

Re: Swedish Tesla strike goes international as Norwegian and Danish unions join in

#200

Post by l33tman »

wharvle wrote: post #96
kjksf wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should ask ChatGPT the following: "explain "lords and peasants"" It's a bit long to reproduce here but the gist of it is that lords had rights and privileges that peasants (serfs) didn't. Those privileges were not based on merit (e.g. you started a successful business and made lots of money) but on bloodline or being given the lord title by monarchy. Musk made this comment in the context old blue checkmark regime…

> Musk made this comment in the context old blue checkmark regime at twitter where Twitter was the monarchy (i.e. the king) bestowing status of a lord (blue checkmark) not based on objective merit but based completely on whims of Twitter. He used the phrase the other day as explicitly the reason he doesn’t like unions. It was part of that interview that was full of painful awkwardness and “holy shit, did he really ju…

What was this interview? Sounds like fun :)
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