Swedish Tesla strike goes international as Norwegian and Danish unions join in • Hacker News Board

Re: Swedish Tesla strike goes international as Norwegian and Danish unions join in

#121

Post by s0l1dsnak3123 » Thu, Dec 07, 2023, 4:30 PM UTC

Maybe - just maybe - Tesla should just give in instead of destroying their brand in the Nordics, which is what they are doing.

The workers are in charge, and they are also the ones buying Teslas (Yes Americans, in Sweden/Denmark/Norway Teslas are affordable enough for normal people who are in unions because they are paid correctly).

Maybe it's a good idea not to destroy your entire market while also destroying the means to facilitate the market.

Maybe Tesla is the problem here.

Maybe the rest of the world needs to catch up to the societal norms of Sweden when it comes to worker's rights.

Re: Swedish Tesla strike goes international as Norwegian and Danish unions join in

#122

Post by tshaddox » Thu, Dec 07, 2023, 4:30 PM UTC

yreg wrote: post #85

toxik wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, and they don’t. The workers do.

I find it insane that the workers of the state-owned postal office can decide what mail to deliver based on their personal views. What's next, the mass transit drivers refusing to stop near Tesla's offices? Court workers refusing to accept Tesla's lawsuits? Firemen refusing to put out fire on Tesla's properties?

It’s a strike. How could the workers be prohibited from deciding whether to strike?

Re: Swedish Tesla strike goes international as Norwegian and Danish unions join in

#123

Post by mxsjoberg » Thu, Dec 07, 2023, 4:30 PM UTC

InCityDreams wrote: post #82

capitalism22 wrote: post #34

[flagged]

>There's all the evidence in the world that it's the best way to make everyone wealthy and improve standard of living, Link to evidence?

need evidence that the earth is not flat as well?

Re: Swedish Tesla strike goes international as Norwegian and Danish unions join in

#124

Post by eddtries » Thu, Dec 07, 2023, 4:30 PM UTC

yreg wrote: post #85

toxik wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, and they don’t. The workers do.

I find it insane that the workers of the state-owned postal office can decide what mail to deliver based on their personal views. What's next, the mass transit drivers refusing to stop near Tesla's offices? Court workers refusing to accept Tesla's lawsuits? Firemen refusing to put out fire on Tesla's properties?

I think the next one will be payment processing not being completed for Tesla. Mass transit drivers could do that. Court & Firemen must guarantee a minimum level of service on their strikes, so that’s unlikely.

Re: Swedish Tesla strike goes international as Norwegian and Danish unions join in

#125

Post by belltaco » Thu, Dec 07, 2023, 4:31 PM UTC

eckesicle wrote: post #25

> Postal workers even decided not to deliver mail to the electric automaker, including license plates – an action that Musk called "insane". The local court has since put a stop to that action. This is no longer true. A higher court overturned that decision and the license plates are again blocked from reaching Tesla.

PostNord is experiencing a force majeure under Swedish law, i.e a strike. I would think that the govt Transport Agency's exclusive contract with them provides an out with them in cases of force majeure to use alternate means, like allowing Tesla to pick up the plates from the factory or use a different carrier to deliver plates, since plates are mandated by the state and the Transport Agency is required to provide them by law.

Also it's one thing to refuse pickup, but PostNord employees are picking up the plates from the factory and then storing them at PostNord. The plates are definitely not the property of PostNord, they are either the property of the state Transport Agency, Tesla or the car owners. Accepting the package and then holding someone else's property seems a bit strange, especially given that these are not even Tesla's striking employees. I wonder how strong property laws are in Sweden.

Re: Swedish Tesla strike goes international as Norwegian and Danish unions join in

#126

Post by carlosjobim » Thu, Dec 07, 2023, 4:31 PM UTC

ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #103

eckesicle wrote: post #25

> Postal workers even decided not to deliver mail to the electric automaker, including license plates – an action that Musk called "insane". The local court has since put a stop to that action. This is no longer true. A higher court overturned that decision and the license plates are again blocked from reaching Tesla.

Allowing the government owned post office to pick and choose who gets mail just seems like a step too far. But even then the court wasn't forcing them to deliver mail, just allowing that mail to be picked up. And now that's blocked? I just don't understand how one entity can have this much power, in this case they essentially are the government they could demand whatever the hell they wanted. Your choice is to leave…

> I just don't understand how one entity can have this much power, in this case they essentially are the government

In Sweden the unions own the government. Nordic countries can not be compared to modern republics such as the USA. There is little separation of powers.

Re: Swedish Tesla strike goes international as Norwegian and Danish unions join in

#127

Post by masklinn » Thu, Dec 07, 2023, 4:32 PM UTC

legitster wrote: post #31

I'm coming from a US perspective and trying to understand what is actually happening https://www.ifmetall.se/aktuellt/tesla/ Does IF Metall already represent all of Tesla's employees? Does that mean there are no active Tesla services in Sweden during the strike? If union membership is really the way of life in Sweden, is there anything preventing the government from a legislative solution? Just mandate collective agr…

> If union membership is really the way of life in Sweden, is there anything preventing the government from a legislative solution? Just mandate collective agreements?

The entire point of the german / Nordic union model is that by avoiding legislative action they can be more nimble and reactive to changes. Companies and unions don’t want legislation, and the governments are perfectly happy to let them handle things like adults.

That however only works when everyone plays ball.

Re: Swedish Tesla strike goes international as Norwegian and Danish unions join in

#128

Post by tuwtuwtuwtuw » Thu, Dec 07, 2023, 4:32 PM UTC

capitalism22 wrote: post #97

InCityDreams wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There's all the evidence in the world that it's the best way to make everyone wealthy and improve standard of living, Link to evidence?

Do you also need a link to evidence stating the sky is blue? Do your own homework.

I am not sure why you argue for capitalism and then want the government to interfere with small details such as this. Why would the government deal with things such as minimum salary?

Re: Swedish Tesla strike goes international as Norwegian and Danish unions join in

#129

Post by eddtries » Thu, Dec 07, 2023, 4:32 PM UTC

s0l1dsnak3123 wrote: post #121

Maybe - just maybe - Tesla should just give in instead of destroying their brand in the Nordics, which is what they are doing. The workers are in charge, and they are also the ones buying Teslas (Yes Americans, in Sweden/Denmark/Norway Teslas are affordable enough for normal people who are in unions because they are paid correctly). Maybe it's a good idea not to destroy your entire market while also destroying the me…

They will have to give in or close shop. Simply two options available. Musk is pretty irrational when it comes to backing down so I suspect the latter. I was just about to buy a new Tesla when this kicked off and don’t fancy the risk of having a car I can’t service, so shopped around and discovered other EVs can be just as good with better build quality nowadays! So that’s a nice outcome for me.

Re: Swedish Tesla strike goes international as Norwegian and Danish unions join in

#130

Post by belltaco » Thu, Dec 07, 2023, 4:32 PM UTC

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #116

ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Allowing the government owned post office to pick and choose who gets mail just seems like a step too far. But even then the court wasn't forcing them to deliver mail, just allowing that mail to be picked up. And now that's blocked? I just don't understand how one entity can have this much power, in this case they essentially are the government they could demand whatever the hell they wanted. Your choice is to leave…

> don't understand how one entity can have this much power...choice is to leave the country or agree to the demands of the postal service...eventually the post office will realize how much power they weild and use it for some other gain It's fairly constrained. They have leverage because the law gives Postnord a monopoly on delivering license plates. If they abuse that narrow power, it's trivial to take it away witho…

> The only reason they have leverage is the law that gives Postnord a monopoly on delivering license plates

Is that a law or an exclusive contract between the government and PostNord, given after bidding and a tender process as they call it in Europe and Asian countries?

I think it's a contract, and contracts have exclusions in cases of forces majeures like strikes. Since the Transport Agency is required by law to provide plates for properly registered cars, I would think they would be required to let Tesla pick them up, or use a different carrier for Tesla plates.