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Swedish Tesla strike goes international as Norwegian and Danish unions join in

theregister.com

321–330 of 541 posts

Re: Swedish Tesla strike goes international as Norwegian and Danish unions join in

#321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're missing the point. I'm not debating the validity of whether people should leave Tesla and go work somewhere else. I'm saying that it's not a strike if you're just refusing service to a customer. A strike - whether because of your circumstances or another's - is you downing tools and stopping working.

No, I’m not. I’m on mobile, and failed to convey my message. What I tried to say is, postal workers are increasing pressure on a company which is treating their workers unfairly, and these workers are connected to the postal workers in a way. So, what postal workers are doing is justified.

I'm not saying that employees shouldn't do certain things if they really don't like a company. Don't buy their products. Post opinions publically. Actually go on strike at your own employer.

I'm saying I don't think that refusing individual service to a customer is a good idea. It seems highly prone to groupthink and as it comes at zero cost to the striking party, prone to misuse as well. Actual striking is moderately balanced because it's limited and comes at a cost to both parties.

It seems simpler to just not work for the company. My understanding is they aren't treating their employees unfairly; they just aren't entering into the union merry-go-round. Their current employees all agreed to employment under the current situation, and now seem to be changing their minds once they've secured employment. But I could be wrong on that last part - perhaps this was promised and that was withdrawn.

Re: Swedish Tesla strike goes international as Norwegian and Danish unions join in

#322

Maybe - just maybe - Tesla should just give in instead of destroying their brand in the Nordics, which is what they are doing. The workers are in charge, and they are also the ones buying Teslas (Yes Americans, in Sweden/Denmark/Norway Teslas are affordable enough for normal people who are in unions because they are paid correctly). Maybe it's a good idea not to destroy your entire market while also destroying the me…

I do not for a second believe ordinary workers can outright buy Teslas in Sweden or Denmark.

Ok but reality doesn’t care much for your feelings.

Re: Swedish Tesla strike goes international as Norwegian and Danish unions join in

#323
post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Never heard of that and that's not legal.

It's perfectly legal, and you can find information about it on the websites of the unions.

You'll have to link to how they mention its fine for the employer to force sign you without your consent, and to sign you up for expensive insurance again without your consent.

Re: Swedish Tesla strike goes international as Norwegian and Danish unions join in

#324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only example of this exact thing in there is...the exact thing against Tesla we're talking about. Everything else is striking against a related company to one's employer's company.

Well, its wikipedia. Im not sure what you are arguing against. Sympathy strikes are guaranteed by the Swedish constitution.

> Well, its wikipedia

What does that mean?

Re: Swedish Tesla strike goes international as Norwegian and Danish unions join in

#325
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In theory, that doesn't sound so bad. In practice, what you're advocating are violent strikes that never end.

A cynic would say that Americans are deliberately kept in the dark as to what people actually had to do in order to win their labor rights, and quite how awful conditions were even for skilled workers. They'll bring back company towns if you let them.

>They'll bring back company towns if you let them.

In fairness, I'm not actually against company towns, in theory. I'm sure company towns existed in Scandinavia the same way they did here. However, following WWII, when they adopted their current economic model, that same town's residents inherited rights from the larger collective bargaining agreement, allowing them to bargain in good faith with the company that basically owns that town.

You see how their model of basically having cascading collective bargaining agreements that start from the top and empower everyone under it make me less opposed to company towns? However, it works better in countries where most people aren't brainwashed into thinking they'll all be billionaires one day and should look out for the interests of billionaires first.

Re: Swedish Tesla strike goes international as Norwegian and Danish unions join in

#326
post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The sad truth is there is plenty of room for Musk to make things much worse. I imagine he can deny them SpaceX payloads. Starlink was just made available to them as well. He could throttle or deny their uplinks and downlinks.

Does Starlink matter at all in Sweden? I've always assumed they have robust Internet connectivity and 4G/5G like we do in Finland.

Not just in Sweden, but also the massive Norwegian and Maersk shipping businesses. I assume they already have it on many of the ships.

https://www.maersk.com/news/articles/2023/10/12/maersk-signs...

Re: Swedish Tesla strike goes international as Norwegian and Danish unions join in

#327
post #275
post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone know of an ETF that buys stocks excluded by activist funds?

You're almost always better off buying individual stocks yourself. You can optimize your return in various ways, like tax loss harvesting to offset capital gains from other sources like stock options. There are cheap robo-advisors that can do this even with small amounts. Also, you might agree with some activist fund exclusions, like tobacco or gambling.

You're not better of buying individual stocks compared to global index funds, that almost always ends up with you underperforming while taking more risk.

Re: Swedish Tesla strike goes international as Norwegian and Danish unions join in

#328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never been forced to become a member of a corporate board. This proposal however is that I be required to join a union. That is the material difference.

True. You’re merely forced to be subject to their decisions, made on behalf of and in the interest of people who aren’t you. [edit] I’m getting the sense that if we just restructure this so the union exists and does normal union stuff but you don’t have to “be a member” (but do have to abide by its decisions or else leave, as with a board) you’d be ok with it? Like it’s mainly a semantic problem?

I see it as more than a semantic problem, but the problem does boil down to the membership. If they are the lawful structure I'll abide by their decisions, I just don't want to be forced to join.

Re: Swedish Tesla strike goes international as Norwegian and Danish unions join in

#329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They will have to give in or close shop. Simply two options available. Musk is pretty irrational when it comes to backing down so I suspect the latter. I was just about to buy a new Tesla when this kicked off and don’t fancy the risk of having a car I can’t service, so shopped around and discovered other EVs can be just as good with better build quality nowadays! So that’s a nice outcome for me.

It's a bit shocking, as Sweden is one of Tesla's most mature and highest-density markets in Europe.

Yes, but there are only 10M people there (and only 25M people in the nordic countries).

To put it in perspective, the total number of Teslas sold over the entire history of Tesla in all of the Nordic countries is less than half of how many Teslas were sold in the US in 2023 alone.

Re: Swedish Tesla strike goes international as Norwegian and Danish unions join in

#330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I just don't understand how one entity can have this much power, in this case they essentially are the government In Sweden the unions own the government. Nordic countries can not be compared to modern republics such as the USA. There is little separation of powers.

Another way to say this is that people own the government.

No, the unions. That's definitely the case in Sweden but it's no longer quite the case in Denmark.

The interests of the people and the interests of the union don't overlap much.

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