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Norway Joins Denmark in Swedish Tesla Strike/Blockade

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Re: Norway Joins Denmark in Swedish Tesla Strike/Blockade

#231

Post by martin8412 »

matsemann wrote: post #225
jplrssn wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Few people working at Tesla Sweden have joined the strike Tesla claims that 90% of their employees in Sweden have refused to strike, but that figure seemingly includes office workers and others who would never have been part of the metalworkers' strike to begin with. The union itself claims about 50%. [0] [0] https://da.se/2023/11/sa-manga-strejkar-pa-tesla-if-metall-g...

And threats about losing their stock options if they participate, or if you're a worker not on a permanent visa you're afraid of losing your job as Musk is known to fire people over this. Which is kinda why the strike is from other workers in other companies.

The threats are illegal.

Re: Norway Joins Denmark in Swedish Tesla Strike/Blockade

#232

Post by ExoticPearTree »

eddtries wrote: post #172
ExoticPearTree wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you do not understand the basic fact that the people peeing in bottles are not working there against their will. As bad as it may be or sound, people choose to voluntarily work there. But sure, go fight your fight with the megalomaniac...

People don't really choose to work, we work because we need to afford food and get health care and rent housing etc. If you live in a town where the job you can get is at Amazon then you don't really "voluntarily" work there, and considering it's pretty simple stuff that hires anyone this is probably the case.

You are always free to pack up your things and move to another place with better conditions.

I would say it is worse for people in Chicago that work in the big slaughterhouses and even though they can pursue other opportunities, they still choose to work there.

Using the "small town, no options" narrative doesn't really hold water.

Re: Norway Joins Denmark in Swedish Tesla Strike/Blockade

#233

Post by ExoticPearTree »

archagon wrote: post #161
ExoticPearTree wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you do not understand the basic fact that the people peeing in bottles are not working there against their will. As bad as it may be or sound, people choose to voluntarily work there. But sure, go fight your fight with the megalomaniac...

For the most part, nobody is working anywhere against their will. Does that mean unions are pointless?

Yes. I dislike the idea of unions with all my heart. I don't understand why a competent person needs to be a member of a union.

Re: Norway Joins Denmark in Swedish Tesla Strike/Blockade

#234

Post by bogantech »

InCityDreams wrote: post #209
C0mm0nS3ns3 wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me this sounds weird. I'm from Eastern Europe, no strong unions there by the way so it must be a West/North Europe kind of thing. I understand unions fighting for people who joined a union. But if I purposefully don't join a union cause I don't believe unions are good for the industry (I don't, but this is a hypothetical) why does the union have the power to create a "collective agreement" that affects me? Who gav…

Let's say the union mandates 2 breaks a day$ unpaid lunch and max 6 day-consecutive work weeks. But not you.

What the unions really mandate: a pay increase that might match inflation if you're lucky.

Re: Norway Joins Denmark in Swedish Tesla Strike/Blockade

#235

Post by martin8412 »

Havelock wrote: post #146
stiray wrote: post #127

I think that whole thing is just a huge misunderstanding of elmu thinking that whole world works like USA. And even in USA, union members in average earn 18% more than others. On the other side, strike and unionizing is one of basic workers rights here and you just don't fight unions in EU. As you will be losing more money than if you get to an agreement with them. When elmu started his crusade against unions, I was…

Unfortunately either side can't blink. IF Metall can't back down because then other companies could get ideas to leave. And Elmu doesn't want to back down because then other countries could get ideas about unionising which would affect their bottom line.

IF Metall hasn't played their best card yet. The finance industry union. If forced, they'll play that. That will freeze all transactions. Tesla won't be able to pay bills and won't be able to receive funds.

Re: Norway Joins Denmark in Swedish Tesla Strike/Blockade

#236

Post by stiray »

ionyun wrote: post #208
stiray wrote: post #127

I think that whole thing is just a huge misunderstanding of elmu thinking that whole world works like USA. And even in USA, union members in average earn 18% more than others. On the other side, strike and unionizing is one of basic workers rights here and you just don't fight unions in EU. As you will be losing more money than if you get to an agreement with them. When elmu started his crusade against unions, I was…

I'm very much for the Nordic model and hope the unions prevail. Still I think it is yet to be seen whether it is Tesla making the mistake of thinking the whole world works like the US or if it is Sweden not understanding that it now works similarly to the US. There have been a lot of "having your cake and eating it too" going on in Sweden in the last few decades. It will be a stupid and costly exercise but as things…

The unions are outside the state model. Their only task is to protect workers and their rights. So no. The Sweden has 88% of their 10.5 million workers population in unions. And you can bet they care more about their working conditions than US military bases.

And since they are also voters on next elections, you can imagine what would happen if government would start working against unions in favor of US military bases.

Re: Norway Joins Denmark in Swedish Tesla Strike/Blockade

#237

Post by eddtries »

ExoticPearTree wrote: post #232
eddtries wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People don't really choose to work, we work because we need to afford food and get health care and rent housing etc. If you live in a town where the job you can get is at Amazon then you don't really "voluntarily" work there, and considering it's pretty simple stuff that hires anyone this is probably the case.

You are always free to pack up your things and move to another place with better conditions. I would say it is worse for people in Chicago that work in the big slaughterhouses and even though they can pursue other opportunities, they still choose to work there. Using the "small town, no options" narrative doesn't really hold water.

My point is if you're working a job it isn't as easy as "find another one". These things are tough personal emotional topics. No-one wants to work at a job where they have to pee in a bottle, yet people work there.

Re: Norway Joins Denmark in Swedish Tesla Strike/Blockade

#238

Post by Kim_Bruning »

eggy wrote: post #84
andsoitis wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If he wants to be remembered as the dude global labor had to organize against, I mean, the bar is already pretty low where he's at but perhaps we have yet to hit bedrock. Probably with a bit to be said about dying a hero or living long enough to become the villain through the appropriate lens. Highly recommend watching the full interview that Andrew Ross Sorkin did with Elon Musk (it is the one where he told advert…

Agreed, and if Norway, Sweden, and Denmark, are for the people, let the people decide whether want to buy a Tesla and support Elon. Cutting off shipping to their rightful owners sounds like you are curtailing your own citizens from living as they please. Would be interesting if they and other countries unions had stopped the shipments of iPhones to their citizen consumers due to the working conditions and no unions a…

Presumably many of those citizens are union members (potentially more than one at the same time), so at worst they'd be ambivalent.

Re: Norway Joins Denmark in Swedish Tesla Strike/Blockade

#239

Post by FirmwareBurner »

mrweasel wrote: post #215
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>people realize that maybe winter tires aren't such a bad idea Hold the phone. Are you telling me winter tires are not mandatory by law in Denmark in winter?!

They are not, surprisingly. I guess the reasoning is that during a normal winter they are required for maybe a few weeks. Many won't switch because they either don't want to pay for a second set of tires, or because it hurt fuel economy for most of the winter. All year tires are also somewhat popular, but they don't work as well in snow. You could probably get a fine for driving without them if the weather makes it u…

>They are not, surprisingly.

That's absolutely insane. One would think the Nordics would be a bit morse sensible on this. Here in Austria they are mandatory between November and April even if you live in places that don't see much snow. Yeah, it's an added expense and PITA but when the snow does come it's overall way safer.

Re: Norway Joins Denmark in Swedish Tesla Strike/Blockade

#240

Post by eddtries »

WJW wrote: post #206
hinkley wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone else pointed out, it sounds like German and Polish truckers are ambivalent.

I guess Tesla has to hope Danish/Swedish customs employees are ambivalent too then. You'd need a lot of trucks to replace a single car transporting ship btw, so even if Tesla manages to work around the strike that way it might be costly.

Which won't matter because they can't get license plates at the moment
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