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An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation

pythonafrica.blogspot.com

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Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation

#201

Post by keraf »

isodev wrote: post #117
keraf wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The claims of Zanzibar being unsafe for LGBTQIA+ communities is ridiculous. I live there and it's the most tolerant place I lived in so far. There are laws, but as long as you mind your own business and don't disturb others, you will be left alone. I've even been to same-sex weddings here (between foreigners of course, same-sex relationships are still taboo between locals but they do exist) and have gay friends livin…

> Still, there are some things that should be avoided in public Now read this again and imagine yourself in the shoes of someone who needs to suppress who they are in public, just so they don’t get stoned to death or make local narrow minded folk get a headache.

> out of respect for the local population.

You're a guest, there are some cultural do's and dont's and holding hands in public is one of the latter, even for heterosexual couples. I don't hold hands with my girlfriend in public even though it'd be totally safe to do so, it's disrespectful because it's not the local custom to do so.

In contrast, many of my LBGT friends in European capitals fear to show affection with their partner in public, with most having faced harassment and some even assault. According to our European values it should be normal and safe to express affection to our partner in public regardless of our genders, but the reality is sadly different.

Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation

#202

Post by grotorea »

niam wrote: post #168
arp242 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That site mostly just looks at legal protections, which don't necessarily say all that much about the "facts on the ground". It also has a few opinion polls, but I don't rate those all that much either. And there can be huge variations within countries, and nuances in what is and isn't considered "bad". There are 61 million people in Tanzania, and it's three times the size of Germany in terms of surface area. It's a…

Vibes on the ground are not fact. Actionable law is. I agree with the people saying that this is in-effect a wholesale rejection of conferences in Africa, and that we should be mindful of that and work on a compromise. But how is it sensible to expect organizations to act on so-called "facts on the ground"? If those facts haven't already been leveraged to meaningfully affect policy, then there's a burdening question…

> Vibes on the ground are not fact. Actionable law is.

I really think this is a view that only makes sense in stable countries with strong rule of law, which I don't think is the case for most of the world. And even in the First World. Are Americans in states that legalized marijuana afraid of a random cop arresting them due to it being federally illegal? Is the average European concerned of being arrested for movie piracy? Seriously there are a lot of unenforced laws around the world. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unenforced_law

Not meant to be an argument for either side of this specific case, just a general opinion. Only looking at vibes is not enough but only looking at the law in the books is also not enough.

Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation

#203

Post by Karellen »

Longhanks wrote: post #134
isodev wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

[flagged]

> Can't you just... not?

So, if someone attends with their partner, are you suggesting they "just... not" show any affection towards them while they're there? No hugging, no hand-holding, no pecks on the cheek? No resting a head on a shoulder?

"Stating your sexual preference" is more nuanced that standing at passport control and blurting out "I'm gay!". Not stating it can involve changing the whole way you behave around the person you're closest to in the world.

...where straight people do not have to make any such changes.

> Where I am from, it is considered impolite not to respect the host's rules while attending as a guest.

That kind of assumes that the hosts rules are at least somewhat fair. If straight people can act naturally around their partners, but people with other sexual preferences have to police all their normal behaviours all the time, lest they are impolite enough to break the hosts rules, should those rules really be considered worthy of respect?

Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation

#204

Post by 9192631770_Hz »

Longhanks wrote: post #134
isodev wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

[flagged]

I (a heterosexual male) have a picture of my wife and me at our wedding on my phone’s lockscreen. Some people carry such photos in their wallet. While traveling, I’ve never given a thought to removing that photo. My wife often travels with me when I go to conferences so we can extend the stay and have a mini-vacation before or after.

A person in a same-sex relationship has the extra burden of having to think about those things, or miss out on those experiences (and even that in itself has detrimental mental effects for many in the long-term).

Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation

#205

Post by hluska »

Longhanks wrote: post #134
isodev wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

[flagged]

Why are you comparing someone’s identity to a substance? How does that analogy even fit? Do you consider that you might be offending some people or was that your goal?

Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation

#206

Post by IAmLiterallyAB »

mrweasel wrote: post #127
kabanda1 wrote: post #96

My guess is that this has much to do with how much they get out of Africa. It seems like they don't see the benefit of funding those conferences. About LBGTQ This looks to me like the Western behaviour where they sanction the whole country to death because they don't agree with policies of people in power. I am an African. And I live in a country where such laws targeting LGBTQ has been enacted. FYI, Most people here…

Looking at the map of the "LGBT rights by country or territory"[0] it is also not clear to me where people would suggest that the conferences be held. Zanzibar seems like one of the few places that would work, along with Botswana, and a few others. Some of the other countries that might work have completely different safety issue, regardless of your sexual orientation. I think realistically, someone has the well mean…

Based on that map, South Africa would seem to be the best choice

Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation

#207

Post by isodev »

keraf wrote: post #201
isodev wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Still, there are some things that should be avoided in public Now read this again and imagine yourself in the shoes of someone who needs to suppress who they are in public, just so they don’t get stoned to death or make local narrow minded folk get a headache.

> out of respect for the local population. You're a guest, there are some cultural do's and dont's and holding hands in public is one of the latter, even for heterosexual couples. I don't hold hands with my girlfriend in public even though it'd be totally safe to do so, it's disrespectful because it's not the local custom to do so. In contrast, many of my LBGT friends in European capitals fear to show affection with…

And what of trans folks? Are they supposed to not go to the toilet for 3 days so they don't offend your culture? Or when there is small talk, should I change "my husband" into "my wife" just so I don't upset the locals?

I hope you see how ridiculous this "just don't show it" is, especially coming from folks who think LGBTQ+ is all about kissing and holing hands.

A global event should not be hosted in a country, state or a city where even the organisers are unable to make adequate arrangements for the safety of all attendees and speakers.

Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation

#208

Post by em-bee »

hobofan wrote: post #175
DeathArrow wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Why not You have the right to hold you own political views, however you don't have the right to impose those on users of a particular software or participants in a software conference.

A sponsor/steward of the conference like the PSF certainly can ask for their Code of Conduct to be enforced in exchange for sponsorship. If what is in the Code of Conduct does not suite you, go find a different sponsor.

A sponsor/steward of the conference like the PSF certainly can ask for their Code of Conduct to be enforced

and that already happened by allowing them to call it pycon, as doing so requires permission from the PSF trademark workgroup. and one of the conditions is having a code of conduct.

Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation

#209

Post by test6554 »

Once upon a time, we wanted something nice but couldn't afford it. Someone gave us money but we wanted the money faster so we complained and publicly shamed the people who gave it to us. The next time we asked for money they didn't help at all and we don't know why. The end.

Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation

#210

Post by SamoyedFurFluff »

TOMDM wrote: post #170

> At a meeting earlier this year, the PSF expressed concern that barely 16% of grants go to African communities. The continent of Africa makes up 17.89% of the world's population (based on recent UN estimates), well within the margin of error of that 16% allocation I'd expect. Am I missing something? Are there country's that the PSF doesn't work with at all that would skew this?

I would expect that grants should skew towards where the need is greatest. Countries with more resources shouldn’t need grants as much.
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