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An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation

pythonafrica.blogspot.com

101–110 of 423 posts

Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation

#101
post #41

> What counts as “safety”? Which places in the world are truly safe for LGBTQIA+ community? How much of a city, or state, or country needs to be LGBTQIA+ hostile for the whole of it to be declared unworthy of PSF support? What a cheap shot. You don't need a safetyometer or something to determine that a country where same sex relationship is punishable by life imprisonment is unsafe for homosexuals or bisexuals.

The claims of Zanzibar being unsafe for LGBTQIA+ communities is ridiculous. I live there and it's the most tolerant place I lived in so far. There are laws, but as long as you mind your own business and don't disturb others, you will be left alone. I've even been to same-sex weddings here (between foreigners of course, same-sex relationships are still taboo between locals but they do exist) and have gay friends livin…

This doesn't change the fact that the laws on the books are the laws on the books. Even if as a foreigner things are "safe in practice", that's not a guaranteed evaluation if the law still criminalizes it. Just because the people you know are safe doesn't protect a possible convention goer who gets a bad run in with the local police and that can result in very bad consequences (prison time) just because they wanted to attend a convention (and raises questions on why a grant for the convention was approved to begin with, given safety is a relevant factor for these).

Taking a quick glance at the Wikipedia page about LGBTQ rights in Africa[0] (going for the broad continent page here to see if there are other, less likely to cause problems, candidates for hosting locations), Tanzania is explicitly listed as "Punishable by prison" on the map, which the article text confirms. More broadly speaking, it would seem most of the countries in Africa have a poor track record on LGBTQ rights except for South Africa (although I'd not be surprised if any of the countries listed in grey on the map would've caused less problems with the grant approval, with "no laws either way" not being amazing but at least not inherently discriminatory). This begs the rather obvious question: why not organize in South Africa (or again, any of the more lenient countries), why does it have to be in Tanzania once these issues were brought to light.

The PSF clearly has standards they wanted to adhere to for these things and wanting a guaranteed safe space for contributors of all walks of life seems to be an important one. I understand the complications on this one and why the usual process resulted in it being kicked upstairs.

Which yes, does suck for the organizers, but again, Tanzania was chosen here and they even admit in the post that preliminary feedback caused a negative response surrounding event safety, so moving the event ought to have been considered with that in mind.

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Africa

Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation

#102

> What counts as “safety”? Which places in the world are truly safe for LGBTQIA+ community? How much of a city, or state, or country needs to be LGBTQIA+ hostile for the whole of it to be declared unworthy of PSF support? What a cheap shot. You don't need a safetyometer or something to determine that a country where same sex relationship is punishable by life imprisonment is unsafe for homosexuals or bisexuals.

They're still good questions to ask and have answered beforehand, though, so that a decision can be made quickly. Apparently the decision here was that that unsafety was not enough to withhold the funds, in which case it would have been great to have been able to make that decision more quickly.

Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation

#103
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>But that's the whole problem: they shouldn't have to hide it in the first place. What does that have to do with Python? You can chose to respect the laws in the country you are in, or not.

You can also judge if a given law is moral or valid, and take actions based on that. PSF has some moral views and they believe in some standards regardless of given country's law. Why are you so fixated on that?

>PSF has some moral views

I thought the reason PSF exists is to promote Python, not to have political views.

Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation

#105
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

This type of discussions are about what should be , not about what is . Your comment doesn't add anything. In fact, it does about as much sense as randomly stating "water is wet". Technically true, but so what?

>This type of discussions are about what should be Generally, citizens of a country and lawmakers decide what should be, not PSF or random commenters on the Internet.

Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation

#106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the same time, software should not be tied to politics. People should be able to hold different political views while taking part in software conferences.

Software is intrinsically tied to politics. It is made to solve problems the priorities of which are arranged by political and ideological frameworks. It or its supporting infrastructure is often funded by political entities. It's written by people whose identities and freedoms are defined by their political context. You can't separate it from politics except in the case where your degree of privilege allows you to i…

> Software is intrinsically tied to politics.

No, it's not, you just want it to be so you can constantly bring up your political issues where they're not welcome.

Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation

#107

My guess is that this has much to do with how much they get out of Africa. It seems like they don't see the benefit of funding those conferences. About LBGTQ This looks to me like the Western behaviour where they sanction the whole country to death because they don't agree with policies of people in power. I am an African. And I live in a country where such laws targeting LGBTQ has been enacted. FYI, Most people here…

[flagged]

Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation

#108

My guess is that this has much to do with how much they get out of Africa. It seems like they don't see the benefit of funding those conferences. About LBGTQ This looks to me like the Western behaviour where they sanction the whole country to death because they don't agree with policies of people in power. I am an African. And I live in a country where such laws targeting LGBTQ has been enacted. FYI, Most people here…

[flagged]

Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation

#109
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't need LGBT hunt squads. All you need is the fact that a gay couple holding hands or kissing publicly is unsafe. "Then just don't kiss publicly". Sure, hiding one's sexuality isn't that hard, especially for a short period of time. But that's the whole problem: they shouldn't have to hide it in the first place. Home people might know you, but in home country you are against only bigoted individuals, not the en…

Hey now, just the other people day people on HN argued that forcing a person to adopt some norms is not censorship, because: 1. It is not the government doing it 2. It is not actually speech You can't say you are free to express yourself in one sentence and forbid expression in the next. Either we all have to hide or we can all be free to express ourselves as we see fit.

You are free to say what you want, and I'm free to take what you are saying into consideration when deciding what in what interaction I will or won't engage with you. What's the contradiction here?

Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation

#110

Well, why can't the local developers organize a conference without Python Software Foundation blessing?

They can. They feel entitled to funding. Rightly or wrongly, I don't know.

We always have local python conferences in Africa without any outsiders financial contribution.

The reason why they expected the contribution is because they are sort of official

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