Earlier quoted context omitted.
How does it matter?
[flagged]
And if the law is that you should not be gay then that makes it a bad country to host a python event.
An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation
91–100 of 423 posts
Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation
#92Say what you want about the language's complexity but this wouldn't have happened if it was a C++ conference.
Can you go on and be clearer with what you mean?
Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation
#93> We know that there are some extraordinary attitudes at work within the PSF. A PSF Board member once openly expressed the opinion that Anglo cultures always seem to be the ones that take the moral lead around the world, leaving others to follow their example. From any non-western perspective, this is an astounding idea to receive. > That’s not a solitary episode. We understand that (notwithstanding the PSF’s ambitio…
> Anglo cultures always seem to be the ones that take the moral lead around the world, leaving others to follow their example
This seems to be my lived experience, so I would say it's true. It would be interesting to see facts/figures on this. But then how to you quantify morality? The fact is, from an "Anglo culture" perspective we are leading with morality because we live in this culture so that's what we believe morality is, and it is the others' that have it wrong.
Girls being executed for not following religious clothing, or female genital mutilation probably seem as the correct and moral thing to do within those cultures that practise it.
I would like to think that objectively I personally find the Anglo set of morality the correct one as it maximises individual liberal freedoms and happiness for people.
I don't think the 'west' should fund conferences in countries that have anti LGBT laws which would be considered hate crimes here. Taking that further, it means we shouldn't deal with Arab countries or some Asian countries. But we look pass our version of morality to do trade and commerce on a global scale. We sell weapons to dictators.
Not an easy issue to think about or discuss from an objective viewpoint, if one can even exist.
Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation
#94Earlier quoted context omitted.
Political pluralism should be the default. When an "us vs them" mentality is embedded in every aspect of society, those are the conditions that lead to horrible governments arising. It becomes more about protecting/promoting the "us" and screwing over the "them" than running a functional fair government.
>Political pluralism should be the default. Agreed. But that doesn't mean that EVERY and ALL political view should be respected. You can have political pluralism in some restricted spectrum, but not accept things that are too extreeme. Not tolerating human rights abuse doesn't automatically lead to every aspect of life being overtaken by "us vs them" mentality. Claiming that it does is nothing more then a slippery sl…
Sure, if the DjangoCon Africa organizers had a history of human rights abuses, maybe that would be a reason to not fund them. But having a conference in Tanzania seems like a non-issue.
Imagine Tommy Tuberville was on the PSF board, and he stonewalls PSF funding for any conference held in a place where abortion is legal. (According to Tommy, legal abortion is a gross human rights violation.) Do you think this is going to be an effective or compassionate form of pro-life advocacy?
Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation
#95Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation
#96My guess is that this has much to do with how much they get out of Africa. It seems like they don't see the benefit of funding those conferences.
About LBGTQ
This looks to me like the Western behaviour where they sanction the whole country to death because they don't agree with policies of people in power.
I am an African. And I live in a country where such laws targeting LGBTQ has been enacted. FYI, Most people here have no idea what LGBTQ means and those who do don't give a damn. Those leading the making of laws and noise making are just populists after their bread. [These are facts, hoping they still matter]
If you feel so strong about attending the conference, no one is going to ask your sexual orientation at the airport. Tourists are coming in everyday. Qatar has just hosted the world cup, how many LGBTQ people were jailed? If you don't feel safe, just skip the conference or attend online.
You know very well that coders are among the most reserved people on earth, why punish them for their government rules?
I hate posturing. I thought this kind of behaviour is to be left to politicians and 'national security' advisers.
Will the world ever go back to reality?
Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation
#97Earlier quoted context omitted.
How does it matter?
[flagged]
> It just shows the relationship between cause and effect. Violation of the law can lead to undesirable consequences for the perpetrator.
I'm sure "perpetrators" of laws like "don't be gay" or "don't be a jew" are very interested in causal intricacies resulting their prosecution/persecution...
Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation
#98Earlier quoted context omitted.
The claims of Zanzibar being unsafe for LGBTQIA+ communities is ridiculous. I live there and it's the most tolerant place I lived in so far. There are laws, but as long as you mind your own business and don't disturb others, you will be left alone. I've even been to same-sex weddings here (between foreigners of course, same-sex relationships are still taboo between locals but they do exist) and have gay friends livin…
There are various indexes of how LGBT+ friendly countries are. For example, equaldex lists Tanzania as rank 181 out of 197 countries (lower is better), with a total score of 12/100 (higher is better, best is Iceland at 92-100). They list their methodology and how their scores are computed, so if you want to present a factual counter-argument you are welcome to (I'm not an expert on the matter). But it seems to me tha…
That site mostly just looks at legal protections, which don't necessarily say all that much about the "facts on the ground". It also has a few opinion polls, but I don't rate those all that much either.
And there can be huge variations within countries, and nuances in what is and isn't considered "bad". There are 61 million people in Tanzania, and it's three times the size of Germany in terms of surface area. It's a big place.
A few charts is not a "fact". Or I mean, it is I guess, but that doesn't automatically mean it describes reality in any meaningful way.
Obviously Tanzania is not the best place to be gay, but details and nuance does matter, and can make huge differences.
Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation
#99Earlier quoted context omitted.
I would argue that one of the most effective steps you can take in a situation like that is to establish pluralistic institutions where people get to know each other in person, as fellow human beings.
What does this change? 100 years ago people were writing angry letters to the American newspapers about women suffrage being an obvious sign of mental disease spreading in the society. You think people writing those letters were isolated from women and didn't know them?
I actually think it is quite possible that the people writing those letters, for the most part, didn't have any healthy relationships with women. Or healthy relationships with suffragettes, at least.
Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation
#100Earlier quoted context omitted.
[flagged]
You don't need LGBT hunt squads. All you need is the fact that a gay couple holding hands or kissing publicly is unsafe. "Then just don't kiss publicly". Sure, hiding one's sexuality isn't that hard, especially for a short period of time. But that's the whole problem: they shouldn't have to hide it in the first place. Home people might know you, but in home country you are against only bigoted individuals, not the en…
> But that's the whole problem: they shouldn't have to hide it in the first place.
In Rome do as the Romans do. Cultural norms differ by countries and should be respected.
Also this kind of indignation is very selective, I've never read a software fundation complaining about it being unsafe to travel as a christian in Marocco (where owing a bible is forbidden by law) for example.