Maybe we need to start talking about acceleration laws? How is a giant truck accelerating to 60mph in <3 seconds safe?
Tesla Cybertruck Pricing and Specs
681–690 of 1001 posts
Re: Tesla Cybertruck Pricing and Specs
#682There are a couple of cars: Plymouth Prowler, Chrysler PT Cruiser, Volkswagen new Beetle, and now Tesla Truck
… that after initial splash will look super lame, fad-ey, gaudy, and dorky. Close your eyes and visualize two Plymouth Prowlers next to each other at the red light - it’s going to look just like that.
I hope they follow it up with a stylish but otherwise classy looking variant.
I wonder how is the second-hand market for PT Cruisers…
Re: Tesla Cybertruck Pricing and Specs
#683Earlier quoted context omitted.
From what I’ve heard, trucks are huge now due to various fuel efficiency regulations. A big truck is easier to make with fewer regulations. It seems like all the electric trucks want to prove they are bigger and tougher than the ICE trucks, but it seems like the perfect platform for small trucks, as the the efficiency standards would become a moot point. I’m looking for trucks like the old Ford Ranger from the late 9…
> trucks are huge now due to various fuel efficiency regulations Correct. It's because of "...the fine print of Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) standards adopted in 1975, Gerald Ford’s reluctant response to a crippling Middle East oil embargo that sent gas prices soaring. To protect American commerce, work trucks and light trucks were subject to less-strict CAFE standards than family sedans. Trucks are also exe…
An obvious, easy solution would be to allow car makers to classify a vehicle as either a "car" or a "truck" (once classified, it cannot be reclassified without the car maker being subject to the worst of both worlds).
Cars can be driven with a car driving license.
Trucks can be driven with a truck driving license, or CDL, or have to be registered by a company, or _whatever licensing requirement makes it perfectly feasible for people who need one for work but enough of a PITA that private individuals don't bother getting it_.
Re: Tesla Cybertruck Pricing and Specs
#684Earlier quoted context omitted.
You can't just combine capex with notional opex savings and then post that as if that's the effective price. If I'm trying to sell you a $6,000 server, I can't take a notional AWS bill of $2,000 a year and say 'since this server will save you $2,000 in cloud costs over three years, it's basically free'
Why not?
What they’re trying to do is give you a number that they think compares more directly with the sticker price on an ICE truck.
They’re trying to say:
Okay, this truck costs $CYBER. and that looks like more than $RAM. But the ownership cost of $RAM is really $RAM + $GAS, and the cost of $CYBER is $CYBER + $ELECTRIC - $REFUND. And $CYBER + $ELECTRIC - $REFUND might be less than $RAM + $GAS. And Tesla would like you to notice that.
And Tesla’s mathemarketing geniuses said: ah, but if $CYBER + $ELECTRIC - $REFUND is less than $RAM + $GAS, then $CYBER + $ELECTRIC - $GAS - $REFUND would also be less than $RAM.
And since Dodge advertises the price of their truck as $RAM, Tesla thinks it’s only fair for them to advertise the ‘fair comparison’ price of their truck as $CYBER + $ELECTRIC - $GAS - $REFUND.
Which by some weird twisted logic makes sense, and the absolute difference in prices is somewhat meaningful, but it gives a misleading impression of the amount you’ll spend and the relative amount you’ll save.
Because it implies you’ll only end up spending $CYBER + $ELECTRIC - $GAS - $REFUND on your Tesla compared to $RAM on your Dodge. It feels like you’re saving $SAVINGS/$RAM.
But you’re actually going to spend $CYBER + $ELECTRIC - $REFUND (which is a bigger number than they are showing) compared to $RAM + $GAS on the Dodge (admittedly also not a number Dodge is advertising anywhere). And you’re actually only going to save $SAVINGS/($RAM + $GAS), which is a smaller proportional saving (remember we don’t know how big Tesla assumes $GAS is, only that they say $GAS - $ELECTRIC is $3000).
But it also assumes that what you’re going to do is follow their logic and take their ‘potential savings’ comparable price, and compare it to the sticker price on an ICE truck. Rather than look at that number and compare it to another truck and then apply your own estimated TCO differential to figure out the all in cost. In which case you’ll double count the TCO difference to Tesla’s benefit.
So yeah, it’s a dishonest bit of math.
Re: Tesla Cybertruck Pricing and Specs
#685Earlier quoted context omitted.
Towing capacity is generally limited by things like the frame, braking capacity, and cooling capacity. If you hook any automatic transmission truck up to a really heavy trailer (100,000 pounds) you can probably move it around, but if you try to actually tow it anywhere the truck will either overheat or crash into something when you can't stop it going down a hill. Torque really only determines how fast you can accele…
Also, traction.
And wheelbase / swaying, right?
Re: Tesla Cybertruck Pricing and Specs
#686I look at this thing and can't help thinking "where will someone set down their coffee mug when their hands are full and they need to open the door?" There isn't a flat surface on it.
Re: Tesla Cybertruck Pricing and Specs
#687Earlier quoted context omitted.
Except that, if you own the Tesla long enough, the savings per month will eat up the difference in cost between the Tesla and significantly cheaper cars.
Cost of ownership is real but advertising a sticker price and including the difference in maintenance as part of that sticker price is just bad math. Should cheaper ICE cars subtract from their sticker price the potential investment earnings of the money that you save versus buying a Tesla? Obviously not.
They don’t actually advertise that as the sticker price, for one thing: the page clearly states what the price is and gives you the option to switch to sticker price.
Secondly, I think the selling point of EVs is the TCO, even with today’s relatively expensive EVs, significantly less expensive all-gas cars end up being cheaper (and the Tesla is more appealing to me than hybrids, which frequently feel bad as someone who really likes to drive). But, it makes sense to me for the landing page to instruct the users about this (like Energy Star appliances do): the UX design might not be the best here, but it’s pretty hard to get all the way through the Tesla sales flow without being told clearly what the actual cost is.
Re: Tesla Cybertruck Pricing and Specs
#688Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why did you call out the CAN bus for water penetration? I thought it was an electrical specification and logical protocol, does it specify wires too?
Correct neither CAN or Ethernet say anything about IP ratings, but I guess having an ethernet switch as a distribution rather than everything on a chain restricts the failure to one device.
Just a thought but if its 48V and its ethernet I wonder if it is using power over ethernet?
Re: Tesla Cybertruck Pricing and Specs
#689Earlier quoted context omitted.
I drove a rented SUV a few weeks ago (GMC Acadia Denali) that had quite shocking acceleration -- 310 horsepower or so -- and the handling of a dead fish. It was kind of scary, and overall a really unpleasant experience. I don't understand why the manufacturer would choose that combination other than being able to market the HP. And this was gas, not EV.
Reminds me of this article I saw recently: https://www.roadandtrack.com/reviews/a45688551/2023-tesla-mo... > The result is terrifying. Both terrifying to drive, and terrifying to realize that these things are out on the road, in the hands of a public I don't trust enough to handle this sort of power. Up on Angeles Crest, the Plaid is incredibly quick, but it doesn't have the chassis, steering, or brakes to deal with…
It has its defenders - including among HN commenters that own one - but the Plaid seems to me to be an extremely silly vehicle.
Re: Tesla Cybertruck Pricing and Specs
#690Earlier quoted context omitted.
I am curious what cybertruck will charge like at existing superchargers that max out at 400V. GM's clever solution is to present the battery pack as 2 400V packs. It does pose some very tricky pack balancing requirements though. Other 800V cars charge quite poorly on 400V stations, usually with a hard cap at much lower than the potential max charge due to inverter limits.
Cybertruck does the pack splitting thing like the GM Ultium vehicles: https://twitter.com/baglino/status/1730391023799386480 It will be interesting to see Tesla's rollout of 800V stations, so far they don't have any within their own network.
IIUC, Ultium is 400V in operation and only switches to 800V while charging on 800V units.
This sounds a little different. It operates at 800V and switches to 400V for charging.
I think that will simplify things and hopefully avoid Ultium's weird glitches during charging.