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I worked in Amazon HR and was disgusted at what I was seeing with PIP plans

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Re: I worked in Amazon HR and was disgusted at what I was seeing with PIP plans

#551

Post by scarface_74 »

Arelius wrote: post #421
closeparen wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Leadership was asked why not find new roles for people getting laid off due to project cancellations at a time when we were still hiring like crazy in the immediate run-up and aftermath. The response was “we need to move fast.” They encouraged those laid off to apply for open roles. But of course it read to employees as a monumental “fuck you.”

Well, but to mention that once, at least at amazon, you enter the pip processs. You are no longer able to move teams. And if you get removed. Not able to apply to return.

Why the hell would I ever want to return? That’s like going back to an ex thinking it “will be different this time”

Re: I worked in Amazon HR and was disgusted at what I was seeing with PIP plans

#552

Post by scarface_74 »

giantg2 wrote: post #461
SpaceNoodled wrote: post #448

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"You can't quit, I fire you!"

Good, gets the unemployment and makes any legal case a little easier.

Yes that whopping $387/week on average. That’ll show them

https://www.forbes.com/advisor/personal-finance/best-and-wor...

Re: I worked in Amazon HR and was disgusted at what I was seeing with PIP plans

#553

Post by scarface_74 »

giantg2 wrote: post #524
rad_gruchalski wrote: post #519

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consider a different job, and pick up some responsibilities.

What are you talking about? I can't change jobs now due to home life responsibilities and having specialized in dead tech. I have picked up responsibilities. In the past I've filled the role of a senior dev for a year and a tech lead for another. I volunteered to be an ASC. I volunteered for all sorts of other responsibilities. Perhaps the world doesn't work in the way that you think. It's not possible for everyone t…

> I can't change jobs now due …having specialized in dead tech.

Then don’t do that?

I’ve been working professionally for 27 years and have been aggressive about keeping pace with technology. I saw what happened first hand when I didn’t between around 2002-2008 and I said it would never happen again.

For reference: I didn’t know “cloud” from a hole in the wall at 44 years old and I got my first and hopefully last job in BigTech at 46 working at AWS in the ProServe department (where I got PIPed see my top level comment)

It is completely irresponsible for anyone in tech especially with a family to not always keep themselves employable and depend on the whims of thier current employer to support their families addiction to food, clothing and shelter.

And how does a disability preclude you from getting a remote job?

And if you “can’t job hop”, would you not look for another job if you got laid off or fired or would you just give up and be on the street - homeless and hungry?

> Just picking up responsibilities doesn't mean you'll get rewarded.

I’m always rewarded for picking up additional responsibilities - if not by the current company by the next. It’s what allows me to aggressively job hop with a family and not be stuck with dead technologies on my resume.

Re: I worked in Amazon HR and was disgusted at what I was seeing with PIP plans

#554

Post by pixl97 »

giantg2 wrote: post #523
j45 wrote: post #483

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's surprising companies don't seem interested in understanding their employees well enough to know that the cost of re-hiring and re-training vs trying to find a better fit in the org is not a good idea. Some industries coach the employee into a different role, or help them exit more openly.

I've even seen articles about how Amazon chews through so many people that they're having trouble finding "virgin" hires. Everyone in their pool is already fed up with them or were PIP'd.

"We need more HB1's.... we already burned the local population"

Re: I worked in Amazon HR and was disgusted at what I was seeing with PIP plans

#555

Post by landemva »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #532
landemva wrote: post #490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was serious labor abuse in past years, and capital doesn't have as much power in the new info-WFH-open source economy. Mineral rights and office space and expensive yearly software support contracts are gone. Stop waiting on government regulators for action on white collar issues.

> capital doesn't have as much power in the new info-WFH-open source economy Seriously? 30% of the population believes whateber chatgt-bot tells them is true on twitter > Stop waiting on government regulators for action I think the key is that there is likely to be violence. Look at how clinate protesters are treated.

> Look at how clinate protesters are treated.

How does that relate to capital and jobs? Unlike physical mining and physical manufacturing, capital is not a gating feature of bits and bytes tech startups.

We saw violent destruction during covid lockdowns by BLM. What did that accomplish?

Re: I worked in Amazon HR and was disgusted at what I was seeing with PIP plans

#556

Post by didntknowya »

giantg2 wrote: post #235
steveBK123 wrote: post #204

One underlying problem with these PIP type programs at FAANG seems to be that they have very high barriers to entry in the interview process, and then act like 30% of the company is underperforming and subject to an annual 6% cull. There are industries & companies that have grown fat & lazy and could use a few annual 6% culls, but you eventually run out of fat. If you have a very competitive interview process and hig…

One thing about fat that I think is overlooked is how fat today might be muscle tomorrow, and how little companies try to convert it. Maybe a person is in a bad role, on a bad team, or simply doesn't have experience or skills fitting the specific requirements of that single point in time. I've been a high performer in the past. Now I'm a low performer (I'm slow) after the company has changed the way it treats teams/w…

could've picked a better analogy that don't reinforce the fitness myth that fat "turns into" muscle.

fat is fat. muscle is muscle. one does not convert into another. it can be broken down into energy to be used but ultimately each cell starts from scratch.

Re: I worked in Amazon HR and was disgusted at what I was seeing with PIP plans

#557

Post by scarface_74 »

theGnuMe wrote: post #482
giantg2 wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, that was a risk I was willing to take by disclosing my disability. So far it doesn't seem like it made anything worse, but it hasn't made anything better either.

I'd speak to an employment lawyer and see what they advise. A couple hundred bucks for the piece of mind might be worth it. You'd get an opinion on what they can and can't do and what you can do to proactively manage the situation.

So exactly what do you think he’s going to accomplish spending years working with an employment lawyer? A reinstatement of his job at a toxic company? Some monetary compensation that probably won’t be worth the headache?

That energy can be better spent looking for a new job. My granddad use to tell me to never chase after old money or old girlfriends.

Re: I worked in Amazon HR and was disgusted at what I was seeing with PIP plans

#558

Post by scarface_74 »

giantg2 wrote: post #383
JohnFen wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sort of thing is one of the big reasons why I would never work for a FAANG company. I prefer to work at a place that encourages good work rather than a weird cutthroat arena combat thing.

I'd still work there. For those comps I'd do a lot of things. My current job is already torture and doesn't pay nearly as well. But I guess that really a fictional problem for me since I'd never pass the interview.

As someone who has been there done that - read my other replies - I can say both that I don’t regret doing it and that I would not sacrifice my life now to ever go back to any large tech company or for the money.

I very much made two decisions this year after being Amazoned that prioritized my stress level over money.

1. Deciding not to put my shingle up and go independent. I have the network, the credentials and the knowledge to make more than I was making at Amazon going that route

2. Turning down a position that was going to be created for me by a former coworjer now director to be responsible for the cloud migration and infrastructure for a $7 billion public non tech company that would have also paid more in cash than my total comp at Amazon.

No, I never struck it rich in tech, I was a journeymen CRUD developer/architect when I got hired with two years of AWS experience and above average soft skills.

Re: I worked in Amazon HR and was disgusted at what I was seeing with PIP plans

#559

Post by scarface_74 »

Firmwarrior wrote: post #296
scarface_74 wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you realize how relatively easy it is for a CS grad with time and motivation to “grind leetCode” enough to pass an interview at Amazon? I didn’t go into AWS as a developer. I worked there in Professional Services. I shadowed a few coding interviews and conducted a few system design interviews of software devs while there.

The problem is that forced attrition doesn't create a dynamic, competitive environment full of go-getters. It creates an environment full of treacherous bums who work as little as possible, and spend all of their efforts making sure they look good and don't take the blame for any failures. You can see the results of this in Amazon's consistently poor companywide performance in every arena. They're even managing to lo…

They are losing ground to Microsoft because MS is already in bed with the “enterprise” and big enterprise was late adopters to cloud.

Source: I worked at AWS ProServe for a little over 3 years and saw how hard it was to detangle BigEnterprise from Microsoft

Re: I worked in Amazon HR and was disgusted at what I was seeing with PIP plans

#560

Post by scarface_74 »

segmondy wrote: post #389
francisofascii wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are put on a PIP, at least you have some time to start looking for a new job. The takeaway seems to be, one on a PIP, put all your effort into finding the next job rather than trying to keep your current one.

if you don't pass the PIP, you often get blacklisted and won't ever get hired again. so if you get another job and quit, say good bye. If the new company you work for get's acquired, you will be let go and won't be integrated back into the fold.

There are a lot of companies out there. I no more want to go back to Amazon than an abusive girlfriend.
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