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The 1988 shooting down of Flight 655 as a user interface disaster

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Re: The 1988 shooting down of Flight 655 as a user interface disaster

#161

Post by dataworm »

brabel wrote: post #149
ponector wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Do you believe they bombed the theater because they were actively trying to kill Ukrainian children? You know , people tend to believe the "other side" is so evil that they probably actually believe shit like this. That's the kind of belief that makes people think that all means justify the end and why we have wars that kill hundreds of thousands in the first place... if you saw people from the other side as just nor…

russian soldiers are evil nazis, not normal people. Most of the russian population supports the invasion, destruction of Ukrainian cities and killing of Ukrainian children.

Re: The 1988 shooting down of Flight 655 as a user interface disaster

#163

Post by shenberg »

CrzyLngPwd wrote: post #119
scotty79 wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isreal has been trying to keep their morals for decades using defensive measures. They constructed probaby best in the world air defense systems to protect their civilians daily. They could just send one rocket for one they were targetted by instead and Gaza would be inhabitable decades ago. So when they were rewarded for their restraint on 7 Oct with savagery I'm not really surprised that huge part of the world give…

[flagged]

If you're seriously suggesting that attacking unarmed civilians intentionally, killing parents in front of their children and then kidnapping the children, slaughtering defenseless party-goers, etc. is what I any resistance movement would do, that's ridiculous. If Hamas would only have attacked military targets, there would be no legitimacy to Israel's actions. However, what actually happened was that they attacked plenty of civilian targets, in a premeditated fashion, in areas that are recognized internationally to be part of Israel.

Re: The 1988 shooting down of Flight 655 as a user interface disaster

#164

Post by [deleted] »

bigfudge wrote: post #121
bionsystem wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hamas is using civilians as human shields pretty much literally. They set this war up so that there is as much civilian casualties as possible on their side to claim it's a genocide. In this particular case, Hamas has a written constitution claiming the destruction of Israel and the jewish people ; Hamas ARE the genociders, despite being the weak army in this war. Ukraine is NOT using its population as human shields.…

To open: I am not apologising for what Hamas has done at all. I think their actions are revolting. Whatever your view of the history of the region, the aim to eliminate Israel as a Jewish state is unrealistic, extreme and counterproductive. Nonetheless, I do find the claim they are using human shields as interesting. Whatever you think of Hamas' aims and methods (and I strongly disapprove of both), Palestinians engag…

[deleted]

Re: The 1988 shooting down of Flight 655 as a user interface disaster

#165

Post by matheusmoreira »

kortilla wrote: post #90
locallost wrote: post #29

Everything's possible, but there would be no debate about UI mistakes if it was Iran shooting down a US plane. They would've done because they are evil by nature, or at least perceived as such. In that case the media and the public buys into its own reality, but of course the UI discussion could be a distraction from the public maybe starting to question if that's actually the reality. Also from the Wiki page about t…

That’s a stupid comparison because the USSR intentionally shot down a plane without trying to contact it and then didn’t cooperate at all on search efforts. Additionally, the pilot positively identified it was a passenger jet due to the double decker windows but shot anyway because they were shooting down “spy planes”, not anything that was an actual threat. This is in contrast to the US incident where they tried to…

It's not stupid. All governments and militaries use propaganda. You'd be a fool to believe anything they say, no matter which country it is. The absolute truth of what happened is unreachable to us, we can only try to piece together a coherent version of the events after the fact. Government narratives are notoriously unreliable sources to base such an understanding upon.

Re: The 1988 shooting down of Flight 655 as a user interface disaster

#166

Post by t0mas88 »

dontlaugh wrote: post #136
School-Cotton wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Persian Gulf, despite the name, is not Iranian territorial waters. Anybody can go there. Iran would be well within its rights to send its warships into the Atlantic Ocean, yes.

And what do you think the reaction of Americans would be if that happened? And especially if those warships were prepared to shoot?

This happens all the time. There is a documentary for example on the HMS Elizabeth carrier from the UK and how they deliberately navigated through Crimea waters (together with the Dutch navy) to make a point that they're allowed to do so because that water is Ukrainian and not Russian.

In the same documentary you also see Chinese ships follow around the British group, and Russian jets overflying it. All in international waters, all legal, both not appreciated by the UK side of things.

Re: The 1988 shooting down of Flight 655 as a user interface disaster

#167

Post by flappyeagle »

itsoktocry wrote: post #148
kortilla wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s a stupid comparison because the USSR intentionally shot down a plane without trying to contact it and then didn’t cooperate at all on search efforts. Additionally, the pilot positively identified it was a passenger jet due to the double decker windows but shot anyway because they were shooting down “spy planes”, not anything that was an actual threat. This is in contrast to the US incident where they tried to…

> That’s a stupid comparison because the USSR intentionally shot down a plane without trying to contact it and then didn’t cooperate at all on search efforts. I don't know much about either incident, but your summary sounds exactly what the OP is saying: "Here are the reasons the Russians did it. It's different, because they're evil". One side was lying about thinking it was a spy plane, but the other side legitimate…

[flagged]

Re: The 1988 shooting down of Flight 655 as a user interface disaster

#168

Post by brabel »

dataworm wrote: post #161
brabel wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you believe they bombed the theater because they were actively trying to kill Ukrainian children? You know , people tend to believe the "other side" is so evil that they probably actually believe shit like this. That's the kind of belief that makes people think that all means justify the end and why we have wars that kill hundreds of thousands in the first place... if you saw people from the other side as just nor…

russian soldiers are evil nazis, not normal people. Most of the russian population supports the invasion, destruction of Ukrainian cities and killing of Ukrainian children.

And where did you learn that? My wife is Ukrainian and knows lot of Russians and Belarussians (they're neighbours after all, and no they don't all hate each other!!), they watch each other TV shows and like mostly the same singers (they understand each other pretty well)... a lot of the biggest Ukrainian singers go to live and work in Russia (though obviously they're now being criticized heavily in Ukraine when they choose to stay). You don't seem to have any idea what you're talking about.

Re: The 1988 shooting down of Flight 655 as a user interface disaster

#169

Post by tpm »

brabel wrote: post #149
ponector wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Do you believe they bombed the theater because they were actively trying to kill Ukrainian children? You know , people tend to believe the "other side" is so evil that they probably actually believe shit like this. That's the kind of belief that makes people think that all means justify the end and why we have wars that kill hundreds of thousands in the first place... if you saw people from the other side as just nor…

> Do you believe they bombed the theater because they were actively trying to kill Ukrainian children?

Yes. They are also actively bombing clinics (including the maternity ward in Mariupol too, look it up) and they have done that in Syria too. It's pretty well documented. They are evil, but more than that, it's a strategy.

They are currently also bombing civilian areas, fully aware that they are civilian areas.

There might be some normal people in Russia, but certainly the heads of the army, Putin and his inner circle are not normal, and they are doing this.

Re: The 1988 shooting down of Flight 655 as a user interface disaster

#170

Post by cherryteastain »

School-Cotton wrote: post #107
dontlaugh wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, what was the US navy even doing there? The Persian Gulf is nowhere near the US. It's as if Iran had their navy parked on the US east coast, it would be seen as an outrage immediately.

The Persian Gulf, despite the name, is not Iranian territorial waters. Anybody can go there. Iran would be well within its rights to send its warships into the Atlantic Ocean, yes.

US seizes Iranian cargo on even non Iranian vessels [1] with impunity. Iran sending warships would be as harshly responded to as the Cuban Missile Crisis.

[1] https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/us-confiscates-ira...

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