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The 1988 shooting down of Flight 655 as a user interface disaster

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Re: The 1988 shooting down of Flight 655 as a user interface disaster

#131

Post by jdasdf »

bionsystem wrote: post #79
cies wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russia's invasion of Ukraine is pretty low on civ casualties. Look at Gaza, or the Iraq/Vietnam invasions compare numbers (civ casualties AND time it took) and then draw conclusions on the use of the word genocide. I also would abstain from using "russians" (or USAers, or Israelis) when referring to actions of the respective govts. Keeps the discussion cleaner of generalizations wrt people that may totally not suppor…

Hamas is using civilians as human shields pretty much literally. They set this war up so that there is as much civilian casualties as possible on their side to claim it's a genocide. In this particular case, Hamas has a written constitution claiming the destruction of Israel and the jewish people ; Hamas ARE the genociders, despite being the weak army in this war. Ukraine is NOT using its population as human shields.…

>They set this war up so that there is as much civilian casualties as possible on their side to claim it's a genocide.

Fairly certain Hamas wasn't the one who shoved 2.5 million people in a tiny location with no way out.

Re: The 1988 shooting down of Flight 655 as a user interface disaster

#132

Post by vkaku »

jgilias wrote: post #77
vkaku wrote: post #46

I first thought this was a post about flat design, then went and read the whole toot. Man, who'd expect UI to be bad enough for life and death operations. Someone should post more details about the actually confusing UI that lead to this event. Would be a good lesson to most of us. It also appears that Lockheed won a contract for using this system in 2023 [1]. Can someone share if they actually fixed the UI issues wi…

The details are in the posted thread. Basically, heading and location came from one plane, identification from another plane, and altitude yet from another one for reasons.

Thank you. Did go through the whole thing. Talk about complicated systems, lack of documentation, work stress and then branding it a personnel failure. Totally unlike most systems today (not!)

Re: The 1988 shooting down of Flight 655 as a user interface disaster

#133

Post by lynx23 »

klez wrote: post #117
lynx23 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope, sorry. I am too old and frustrated by modern web accessibility issues that I am not going to waste my time and "contribute" to this mess. A few years back, I would have tried to make the world a better place. These days, I have learnt that we blind people are no longer a factor for anything anymore. I bet LGBTQ people have a way higher chance to get what they want/need then people with disabilities hurt by the…

If you made this about accessibility in the first place, (and avoided the useless war between the poor with the LGBTQ people here) I bet your post would have been better received. By the way you make a very good point about accessibility and the fact that you basically need two operating systems (the actual OS running on your PC and a modern Web Browser) to read simple text that should have been rendered as such in t…

The poor? Are you refering to people with disabilities by any chance? I hope not, because that would be quite condescending. Being forgotten by society might feel like alienation, but to assume people with disabilities are automatically poor is quite a stretch. Some of us have paying dayjobs, you know...

Besides, why do I have to out myself as a blind user to be allowed to ask for plaintext postings without being immediately downvoted/punished? I think it is quite revealing about the audience here recently. And no, I am not writing posting for maximum popularity.

Re: The 1988 shooting down of Flight 655 as a user interface disaster

#134

Post by totetsu »

gambiting wrote: post #118
oddmiral wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Israel is not a state with Christian morale, they are not a part of the "Western world". They have their own religion and morale, which are older than Christianity. Only part of holy books are shared between two.

Who mentioned anything about Christianity??

Some people equate morality with religion.

Re: The 1988 shooting down of Flight 655 as a user interface disaster

#136

Post by dontlaugh »

School-Cotton wrote: post #107
dontlaugh wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, what was the US navy even doing there? The Persian Gulf is nowhere near the US. It's as if Iran had their navy parked on the US east coast, it would be seen as an outrage immediately.

The Persian Gulf, despite the name, is not Iranian territorial waters. Anybody can go there. Iran would be well within its rights to send its warships into the Atlantic Ocean, yes.

And what do you think the reaction of Americans would be if that happened? And especially if those warships were prepared to shoot?

Re: The 1988 shooting down of Flight 655 as a user interface disaster

#137

Post by contravariant »

locallost wrote: post #29

Everything's possible, but there would be no debate about UI mistakes if it was Iran shooting down a US plane. They would've done because they are evil by nature, or at least perceived as such. In that case the media and the public buys into its own reality, but of course the UI discussion could be a distraction from the public maybe starting to question if that's actually the reality. Also from the Wiki page about t…

I mean that's the fundamental attribution error isn't it? If we do it it's because of external factors, if they do it it's because they're inherently bad people.

Re: The 1988 shooting down of Flight 655 as a user interface disaster

#138

Post by ceejayoz »

p_l wrote: post #76
formerly_proven wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A not so subtle difference is that the pilot shooting down KAL 007 identified it as a civilian airliner and proceeded to shoot it down anyway. Another more subtle difference is that in the Iranian Airlines shootdown, the US took responsibility and at least apologized. Meanwhile the Soviets denied anything happening until they couldn't and then claimed it was a spy plane (legitimate target).

Identified it as a Boeing 747, but not as a civilian airliner . The same types of planes as civilian airliners are often used as platforms for military and spy planes. FWIW, they would have ended up better off if the original TASS press release was not cancelled just before publication (the one where it was claimed a mistaken shooting due to misidentification).

“It’s a Boeing” could be waved away this way. 747s aren’t used as military or spy planes with the exception of Air Force One and the E-4, neither of which would ever be there unescorted and unannounced.

Re: The 1988 shooting down of Flight 655 as a user interface disaster

#139

Post by CogitoCogito »

locallost wrote: post #29

Everything's possible, but there would be no debate about UI mistakes if it was Iran shooting down a US plane. They would've done because they are evil by nature, or at least perceived as such. In that case the media and the public buys into its own reality, but of course the UI discussion could be a distraction from the public maybe starting to question if that's actually the reality. Also from the Wiki page about t…

We judge others by their actions and ourselves by our intentions.

Re: The 1988 shooting down of Flight 655 as a user interface disaster

#140

Post by scythe »

nojvek wrote: post #72
CrzyLngPwd wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One only has to see the differences between NATO bombing of serbian power stations vs the russians doing the same with Ukraine, or Israel killing children in gaza vs russian killing children vs the US killing afghan or Iraqi children. https://www.nytimes.com/1988/10/25/us/crew-of-cruiser-that-d...

[flagged]

The hot phase of the Russo-Ukrainian War has been going on for one year and nine months.
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