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Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

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Re: Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

#241

Post by backtoyoujim »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #220
paulryanrogers wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personal postage and large commercial shipments seem unrelated to me. Moreso if the former is via a government delivery service and the latter is via a private company.

To you perhaps, but not to universal postal service laws... " "The universal service obligation (USO) is the core of the Postal Services Directive (97/67/EC, amended by Directives 2002/39/EC and 2008/6/EC). This is the requirement that letters and parcels should be delivered to each home or business premises, on 5 days each week, throughout each EU country (with exemptions). " Tesla has a right to postal service in t…

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Re: Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

#242

Post by scottyah »

lock-the-spock wrote: post #204
scottyah wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It screams corruption to me, this definitely sounds like one political group has infiltrated the governmental services and has gotten enough power to begin publicly target people/groups that they oppose.

I'm sorry but your claim does not make sense at all given the meaning of the words you are using

I'm listening, what do you mean by that?

Re: Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

#243

Post by InCityDreams »

bjornsing wrote: post #201
jltsiren wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PostNord is a private business owned by Sweden and Denmark. Unless there are specific laws to the contrary, its employees have the same right to strike as any other private sector employees. (More generally, postal services in the EU tend to be structured as businesses these days, because they are in direct competition with various courier and package delivery services.) Also, while the employees may be on strike, ma…

> Also, while the employees may be on strike, managers who rank high enough are not represented. If a company has particularly important obligations it needs to honor, it can always tell the managers to handle them personally. You have to get very high in the hierarchy before you find a manager that the unions will not represent. This is one of the major problems with the Nordic model I would say.

I'm not 'very high' at all (EU based, countries/rules differ). Just by title "Manager", I am not allowed by contract to join a Union. The Unions would represent me, but I voluntarily signed away that particular right. I do, though, thoroughly support the sympathy strikes: fuck you, tesla.

Re: Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

#244

Post by Legogris »

bjornsing wrote: post #201
jltsiren wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PostNord is a private business owned by Sweden and Denmark. Unless there are specific laws to the contrary, its employees have the same right to strike as any other private sector employees. (More generally, postal services in the EU tend to be structured as businesses these days, because they are in direct competition with various courier and package delivery services.) Also, while the employees may be on strike, ma…

> Also, while the employees may be on strike, managers who rank high enough are not represented. If a company has particularly important obligations it needs to honor, it can always tell the managers to handle them personally. You have to get very high in the hierarchy before you find a manager that the unions will not represent. This is one of the major problems with the Nordic model I would say.

> This is one of the major problems with the Nordic model I would say.

I'd say it's a key factor to why it can sustain at all.

Compare to tech startups and big tech where I imagine the majority of those who would be able to drive a union are already intertwined enough in leadership that they feel prevented from organizing due to conflict of interest.

Re: Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

#245

Post by einr »

tmikaeld wrote: post #79

What if Tesla just pulled out of the country? Who's worst off? Sweden: - Loss of jobs, I don't know how many. (But the workers would prob. be quite bitter, they earned more with Tesla shops than standard shops) - May be bad for Swedish investments, since a union deal would now be mandatory. - Less electric cars, less good for the environment. - € ~100M/year in tax lost from sales. Tesla: - Loosing € ~350M/year (10K S…

- Loss of jobs, I don't know how many. (But the workers would prob. be quite bitter, they earned more with Tesla shops than standard shops)

According to IF Metall, Tesla employees earn less than the average in the "Motorbranschavtalet" -- the collective agreement they should have.

- May be bad for Swedish investments, since a union deal would now be mandatory.

Nine out of ten Swedes already have jobs covered by union collective agreements. Most of the ones who are not under an agreement work in smaller companies. It is almost unheard of for a company the size of Tesla to refuse. This has been the situation for decades and we have plenty of investments, so this Tesla clownshow changes nothing.

- Less electric cars, less good for the environment.

There are plenty of other brands who would very much like to take the spot of Tesla's 5th largest market in the world and Sweden's #1 selling car (Tesla Model Y).

- € ~100M/year in tax lost from sales.

Again, plenty of other more respectable brands out there that we can buy instead. Tesla is free to keep digging their own grave, Sweden will be doing just fine.

Re: Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

#247

Post by InCityDreams »

pw378 wrote: post #198
kmlx wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's not crazy when you understand the Swedish model the only thing i’m questioning is the idea that the postal company is allowed to not deliver mail. it just looks very wrong to me.

Striking is one thing, but targeting an individual company is another. They are not striking, they are selectively denying a critical service to force submission. It is not hard to imagine scenarios where this is weaponized with horrifying outcomes.

"It is not hard to imagine scenarios where this is weaponized with horrifying outcomes."

Well, it is for me to imagine - could you expand on "horrifying"? The Mirriam W definitions don't seem to make sense when used in your particular context.

Re: Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

#248

Post by nomel »

frosting1337 wrote: post #225
letmevoteplease wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a company is legally required to use PostNord and PostNord can legally refuse to deliver mail, it effectively gives PostNord the power to control any company that wants to continue receiving mail. Regardless of whether they are using that power for good or evil here, I don't think it's a power they should have.

Why not? They're a private company. Isn't that usually what Americans are telling people, that corporations are free to serve who they please? But, more importantly, PostNord isn't doing anything - it's a unionised group of workers refusing to deliver Tesla products. That's how strikes work, and Musk's go-to course of action is to immediately proceed to legal action rather than negotiating and meeting the union's req…

> They're a private company.

How does a private company get the benefits of being legally required? That seems like a benefit that only a public company should have.

Re: Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

#249

Post by InCityDreams »

wendyshu wrote: post #234
kamranjon wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or maybe not such a great idea for Tesla to build one if they intended to take advantage of workers without repercussions?

Define "take advantage of"

...not allowing collective bargaining, for one.

Re: Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

#250

Post by mvdtnz »

backtoyoujim wrote: post #241
mytailorisrich wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To you perhaps, but not to universal postal service laws... " "The universal service obligation (USO) is the core of the Postal Services Directive (97/67/EC, amended by Directives 2002/39/EC and 2008/6/EC). This is the requirement that letters and parcels should be delivered to each home or business premises, on 5 days each week, throughout each EU country (with exemptions). " Tesla has a right to postal service in t…

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