Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

thelocal.se

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

211–220 of 364 posts

Re: Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

#211

Post by jacquesm »

flutas wrote: post #193
jacquesm wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, agreed. But that's a lot of smoke already, those reps would likely not say that if it wasn't something they could back up.

> But that's a lot of smoke already, those reps would likely not say that if it wasn't something they could back up. Agreed, but the reps would also clearly make the other claims as well, if they were valid claims that they could back up. The fact they didn't makes me think it's someone being overly dramatic with no actual knowledge. Or to put it another way, I don't think it's "a lot of smoke", I think it's a campfi…

Tesla has done exactly that same thing before so it's not as farfetched as it may seem, they may have simply not realized that doing that same thing in Europe is going to have a completely different effect than what happened the previous time in America.

Re: Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

#212

Post by mytailorisrich »

jltsiren wrote: post #188
susano wrote: post #174

Not overly knowledgeable on Swedish law, but the idea that a public sector union can decide to block public services (in this case postal delivery of license plates) for a single company as a sympathy strike seems pretty nuts to me. Pretty sure Sweden would lose in European court at least (of course it would probably take a long time to percolate there).

PostNord is a private business owned by Sweden and Denmark. Unless there are specific laws to the contrary, its employees have the same right to strike as any other private sector employees. (More generally, postal services in the EU tend to be structured as businesses these days, because they are in direct competition with various courier and package delivery services.) Also, while the employees may be on strike, ma…

Refusing to distribute mail to a specific recipient does not sound like a 'strike' in the sense of labour dispute to me. In France (often used a reference when it comes to striking...) that wouldn't be a legal strike, but obviously every jurisdiction is different.

In any case, this also probably breaches EU law related to universal postal service, which states that mail must be delivered to every address 5 days a week.

Re: Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

#213

Post by bjornasm »

contrarian1234 wrote: post #122
cool_dude85 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think they probably have the power to not cross a picket line, or even a full blown sympathy strike if they want. In this case, the union who wants Tesla to accept the sectoral contract is striking, so the postal union is refusing to cross the picket line by doing business with Tesla.

That doesn't make sense. It says they're refusing to allow Tesla to pick up the license plates as well. And in any case, is a picket line a legally protected entity now?

It doesn't make sense? How so? They are supporting the strike by boycotting Tesla.

Re: Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

#214

Post by Dah00n »

Hikikomori wrote: post #99
tmikaeld wrote: post #79

What if Tesla just pulled out of the country? Who's worst off? Sweden: - Loss of jobs, I don't know how many. (But the workers would prob. be quite bitter, they earned more with Tesla shops than standard shops) - May be bad for Swedish investments, since a union deal would now be mandatory. - Less electric cars, less good for the environment. - € ~100M/year in tax lost from sales. Tesla: - Loosing € ~350M/year (10K S…

You don't think Tesla owners would seek reimbursement if they cannot service their cars anymore? The government would likely get involved to avoid Tesla car e-waste, either to force car returns and repayment or to allow 3rd party mechanics to work on their cars.

> or to allow 3rd party mechanics to work on their cars.

EU law state you can use whatever shop you want to service you car and it will still be under warranty. I have never once in my life used the dealer for repairs or service unless it was warranty/recall.

Re: Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

#215

Post by bjornasm »

lynx23 wrote: post #34
jesperlang wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla is trying any means necessary since they know that Swedish labour laws are strong: if they do not have a union agreement, workers are allowed to strike (indefinitely). This vacuum we are now in is probably very costly for Tesla so I at this point I think it is an ideological/personal battle..

If I were Musk, I'd just shut down the whole operation in Sweden. It is not like the country is particularily big.

Only the 5th largest country, ans by doing so they might shut down their 4th largest country, Norway, as well.

Re: Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

#216

Post by cinntaile »

okr wrote: post #209
cinntaile wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is undemocratic about a law in a democratic country? They can pick up their plates themselves for now, the lawsuit will decide what the law says.

Maybe being able to pick any other company to make the plates? For god sake, it is just a plate. A simple piece of metal with some letters on it to make everyone happy with traceability.

Government contracts need to fulfill very specific rules to prevent conflicts of interest. This one company one that bid and is now responsible for that. If you want it any other way, the law needs to be changed and that is again a democratic process.

Re: Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

#217

Post by einr »

TheMagicHorsey wrote: post #163

On a related note, I think you have to consider very carefully whether or not you can manufacture in Sweden. For some companies like Teenage Engineering, Elektron, etc.,it can make a lot of sense as your labor cost is such a small fraction of the total value of the product. But if you are in some kind of competitive market where the labor cost has the potential to erase your margins (and therefore return on the proje…

But if you are in some kind of competitive market where the labor cost has the potential to erase your margins (and therefore return on the project investment) then I don't think it makes sense in this globalized economy to base in Sweden.

Where do electric vehicles fall on this spectrum? I don't know TBH. I would suspect the Model S and Model X it doesn't matter really ... but say for batteries or the Model 3 ... maybe Sweden is a bad choice.

https://northvolt.com/manufacturing/ett/

Re: Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

#218

Post by paulryanrogers »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #212
jltsiren wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PostNord is a private business owned by Sweden and Denmark. Unless there are specific laws to the contrary, its employees have the same right to strike as any other private sector employees. (More generally, postal services in the EU tend to be structured as businesses these days, because they are in direct competition with various courier and package delivery services.) Also, while the employees may be on strike, ma…

Refusing to distribute mail to a specific recipient does not sound like a 'strike' in the sense of labour dispute to me. In France (often used a reference when it comes to striking...) that wouldn't be a legal strike, but obviously every jurisdiction is different. In any case, this also probably breaches EU law related to universal postal service, which states that mail must be delivered to every address 5 days a wee…

Personal postage and large commercial shipments seem unrelated to me. Moreso if the former is via a government delivery service and the latter is via a private company.

Re: Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

#219

Post by bjornasm »

paganel wrote: post #63
fastasucan wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Most probably the Swedes will cave in, after kindly being reminded that the >Russians are located just across the Baltic lake from them. >Interesting to think what will Musk give to the DC people in exchange. This is incredibly uninformed. Sweden is to important for NATO to care about helping Musk.

They're not even a de jure NATO member yet. But if you want "informed" opinion, I've just gone through this series of studies: "Military Strategy in the 21st Century - The Challenge for NATO" [1], where on page no. 415 there's an essay titled "Military Strategy in Denmark" by a guy called Petter Viggo Jakobsen, Associate Professor at the Institute for Strategy at the Royal Defence College, while on page no. 433 there…

There is no sense in assuming that Tesla is more important for Nato than a Swedish participation in Nato. And it is also wrong to equate striking workers to the swedish state. This is on par with authoritarian states not understanding that people have their own will in a dempcracy.

Re: Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

#220

Post by mytailorisrich »

paulryanrogers wrote: post #218
mytailorisrich wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Refusing to distribute mail to a specific recipient does not sound like a 'strike' in the sense of labour dispute to me. In France (often used a reference when it comes to striking...) that wouldn't be a legal strike, but obviously every jurisdiction is different. In any case, this also probably breaches EU law related to universal postal service, which states that mail must be delivered to every address 5 days a wee…

Personal postage and large commercial shipments seem unrelated to me. Moreso if the former is via a government delivery service and the latter is via a private company.

To you perhaps, but not to universal postal service laws...

""The universal service obligation (USO) is the core of the Postal Services Directive (97/67/EC, amended by Directives 2002/39/EC and 2008/6/EC). This is the requirement that letters and parcels should be delivered to each home or business premises, on 5 days each week, throughout each EU country (with exemptions)."

Tesla has a right to postal service in the same way as everyone else.

Post reply on HN