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Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

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Re: Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

#141

Post by Jensson »

Hikikomori wrote: post #127
Jensson wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But they aren't. Also unions can't push these sympathy strikes too far, by doing targeted denial of government services they are really making it easy for the current right wing government in Sweden to add regulations to prevent unions from denying government services via sympathy strikes in the future. There are already such laws for healthcare etc.

They aren't because the situation doesn't require it yet? If the rules/regulations regarding delivery of plates changes union action will change to address that. If the government does something to curb union power (in a non life and death situation) they'll likely lose the next election.

> If the government does something to curb union power (in a non life and death situation) they'll likely lose the next election.

No they wont, if they do something like: "Sympathy strikes is not a valid reason to refuse to deliver mail" nobody who currently votes right will think that is bad. Post workers can then still strike for better conditions for themselves, but they can't shut down the postal system for companies they don't like.

Mail is necessary for many government functions, it isn't some optional thing that you can work around.

Edit: Seems like the courts agrees that this is a necessary function so they have to give them to Tesla via alternate means:

https://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/domstol-teslas-registreri...

Re: Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

#142

Post by salawat »

kmlx wrote: post #97
piva00 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and the postal workers refuse to deliver anything to tesla (which seems a bit crazy considering there are laws about using the postal services). It's not crazy when you understand the Swedish model: labour laws are minimal, setting just a very basic framework which is then taken to employers + employees negotiations to set the other terms of employment for an industry, in that it's a pretty free labour market. The…

> It's not crazy when you understand the Swedish model the only thing i’m questioning is the idea that the postal company is allowed to not deliver mail. it just looks very wrong to me.

Yet you think tying people's hands and forcing them into furthering the interests of a foreign business venture's goals at the expense of the locality is okay?

Ask yourself, why is that okay? Why is it more wrong for a locality to refuse to cooperate with an uncooperative outsider than for an uncooperative outsider to act in a highly disruptive manner to the sensibilities of a foreign locale in the first place?

What would you do if it was you in their position?

Re: Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

#143

Post by tmikaeld »

rsynnott wrote: post #116
tmikaeld wrote: post #79

What if Tesla just pulled out of the country? Who's worst off? Sweden: - Loss of jobs, I don't know how many. (But the workers would prob. be quite bitter, they earned more with Tesla shops than standard shops) - May be bad for Swedish investments, since a union deal would now be mandatory. - Less electric cars, less good for the environment. - € ~100M/year in tax lost from sales. Tesla: - Loosing € ~350M/year (10K S…

> Less electric cars, less good for the environment. > € ~100M/year in tax lost from sales. How's that work? Like, there are other manufacturers; you'd assume VW/Hyundai/BYD would just pick up the slack.

You'd have hundreds of thousands of unused cars.

But sure, replacement of sales is probable.

Re: Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

#144

Post by tmikaeld »

Hikikomori wrote: post #99
tmikaeld wrote: post #79

What if Tesla just pulled out of the country? Who's worst off? Sweden: - Loss of jobs, I don't know how many. (But the workers would prob. be quite bitter, they earned more with Tesla shops than standard shops) - May be bad for Swedish investments, since a union deal would now be mandatory. - Less electric cars, less good for the environment. - € ~100M/year in tax lost from sales. Tesla: - Loosing € ~350M/year (10K S…

You don't think Tesla owners would seek reimbursement if they cannot service their cars anymore? The government would likely get involved to avoid Tesla car e-waste, either to force car returns and repayment or to allow 3rd party mechanics to work on their cars.

If the company is no longer a legal entity in the country any more, I think it would be very hard to sue for it or get anything out of it.

Re: Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

#145

Post by JumpCrisscross »

orwin wrote: post #59
lynx23 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I were Musk, I'd just shut down the whole operation in Sweden. It is not like the country is particularily big.

If he does that, he will have to do the same with norway, and probably Denmark too. Also, Tesla will have to open-source his hardware, because it will have to respect warranties, and without transport/local Tesla shops, the only alternative will be conventional car shop, which right now cannot really serve Teslas, at least in France.

> he will have to do the same with norway

It seems to be gaining regional momentum [1].

[1] https://www.transportarbetaren.se/brett-stod-i-tesla-konflik...

Re: Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

#146

Post by Hikikomori »

Jensson wrote: post #141
Hikikomori wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They aren't because the situation doesn't require it yet? If the rules/regulations regarding delivery of plates changes union action will change to address that. If the government does something to curb union power (in a non life and death situation) they'll likely lose the next election.

> If the government does something to curb union power (in a non life and death situation) they'll likely lose the next election. No they wont, if they do something like: "Sympathy strikes is not a valid reason to refuse to deliver mail" nobody who currently votes right will think that is bad. Post workers can then still strike for better conditions for themselves, but they can't shut down the postal system for compa…

If they do something they would have to change the law as the Swedish system does not use Ministerial governance for individual cases like this.

So far only Tesla has been heard in court, Judge ordered temporary relief as Tesla argued that their business would be hurt short term, it's not a final decision. Workers at the factory are also part of a union, so they may refuse to hand any plates out.

Re: Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

#147

Post by atoav »

Lol. What. I am not that familiar with workers rights in Sweden, but it would surprise me if this would be able to go anywhere meaningful.

Sounds more like somebody is butthurt that the typical "downgrade your workers rights or I'll move my business elsewhere"-strat didn't work out.

Re: Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

#149

Post by parl_match »

jacquesm wrote: post #148

The hubris is just off the scale. How about you simply follow the law. How hard can it be, if the Chinese can manufacture cars in Sweden then so can Americans.

Tesla is not breaking the law. This is a labor action, and considering Europe's general tenor on labor relations, this lawsuit is going to be a hilarious mistake.

Re: Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

#150

Post by jacquesm »

parl_match wrote: post #149
jacquesm wrote: post #148

The hubris is just off the scale. How about you simply follow the law. How hard can it be, if the Chinese can manufacture cars in Sweden then so can Americans.

Tesla is not breaking the law. This is a labor action, and considering Europe's general tenor on labor relations, this lawsuit is going to be a hilarious mistake.

They are breaking the law. They have (repeatedly) threatened strikers that they would take away their options which is how they managed to match compensation to begin with so this is very much a legal issue as well.

That's why so many sympathy strikes broke out. What Tesla execs need to realize is that the world isn't North America and that different countries have different relationships between labor and management. If they don't want that they should move their manufacturing out of the EU and live with the tariffs.

edit: apparently it's worse than just stock:

https://www.reddit.com/r/electricvehicles/comments/17l46ho/c...

Also mentioned is holidays and insurance. It would be nice to find the original Swedish article.

The funny thing is that they may well win this suit and it will only backfire because it should have never come this far. So the workers will pick up even more sympathy. It's affecting their supply lines as well now.

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