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Physical attractiveness and intergenerational social mobility

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Re: Physical attractiveness and intergenerational social mobility

#91

Post by Spivak »

Jensson wrote: post #64
Spivak wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has gotta be one of my favorite parts of HN, it's an odd glimpse into how men view the world. You've got it backwards. In both cases what makes it harassment is continuing to push when it's unwanted. Why you seem to see a difference in results based on attractiveness is because your average guy can't take a hint no matter how attractive they are. So "success" becomes literally stochastic because guys never back…

What you said there is exactly what they mean though. Hot guys acting like assholes and not asking typically doesn't get issues due to the effects you talked about.

I think typically is doing some heavy lifting that simply isn't true. But even if it was surely this isn't what you want to aspire to, right? Get hot enough that you can disregard women's signals because it accidentally works out for you marginally more often seems a lot harder than... ya know not doing that.

I swear the guys that just start dancing on me would do far far better if they just asked first. It goes from "oh god ew how do I discretely get one of my girlfriends to get me out of here" to "eh ya know what, sure."

Re: Physical attractiveness and intergenerational social mobility

#92

Post by paul7986 »

seydor wrote: post #86
paul7986 wrote: post #71

Physical attractiveness is gold ... you're life more then likely will be an easier road. You have the opportunity to experience the many positives life has to offer (more frequently too) as they are easily obtained and or they just fall at your feet. I.e. dating apps you have tons of choice .. you do not ever have to be alone... you post pics on social media and get tons of likes.. you post pics of you and the beauti…

> I.e. dating apps you have tons of choice .. you do not ever have to be alone... you post pics on social media and get tons of likes. I could agree with those, but those are a rather limited part of life. They may help us, "the pretty ones" to feel good, but it takes more for someone to be considered successful generally. > you use it to climb the professional ladder. I think this is way overrated and lots of pretty…

If you are a person who has never had any issue with dating options vs. one who has and refuses to settle just to have someone then consider yourself lucky. Living life alone sucks...mine goes in waves where I have found someone for some years who im attracted to yet they are not as respectful to the relationship or me as I am (they cheat or refuse to have an open relationship yet still cheat) to it and them.

The dumb hot blonde most likely is never alone ... she could be broke cause of not respecting a good partner as they respected her or she could just have been with a lot of attractive men who constantly cheated cause they have choice. She could then drop her standards for a good guy to find security and respect or just say F it im done then her beauty fades. Hmmm being human ... and again if you are one who never had issue finding someone good/respectful who fits your wants/needs ... again consider yourself lucky!

Re: Physical attractiveness and intergenerational social mobility

#93

Post by orwin »

skocznymroczny wrote: post #75
Spivak wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has gotta be one of my favorite parts of HN, it's an odd glimpse into how men view the world. You've got it backwards. In both cases what makes it harassment is continuing to push when it's unwanted. Why you seem to see a difference in results based on attractiveness is because your average guy can't take a hint no matter how attractive they are. So "success" becomes literally stochastic because guys never back…

I don't think so. There is a growing movement on places like Instagram and Tiktok, currently it's mostly played as a joke but there are woman complaining about how they said to a guy "No" and he backed off instead of trying again. Many women want to play hard to get and want a guy to try multiple times. The problem is if an attractive guy does it then he "is confident and really wants her", but if unattractive guy do…

What? I think it's fake women saying that.

My sister was raped by her boss, so maybe she is more sensitive, but she box and spend 6 hours a week at the gym (10 hours total if you count boxing), and truly attractive males hit on her daily. Any guy who hit on her without being prompted, even the 'cute' ones (which is, to be fair, a big part of gym goers), get on her 'red flag' list, that she share with her gym and box friends. Maybe when she was younger she might have thought that.

My personal experience (which was until recently limited to feminist hippies living in vans/tents and playing guitar around a fire tbh) is the same. Just have normal conversation, a bit of small talk, listen and pay attention, flirt a bit, only show off if it doesn't break the rhythm of the moment (better yet, don't show off at all), ask for a date without saying it's a date. If it's no, it's no. Doesn't mean you can't flirt anymore, flirting is always fun (and if it's not for you, think about that: more practice!).

Re: Physical attractiveness and intergenerational social mobility

#94

Post by codeTired »

paul7986 wrote: post #63
Obscurity4340 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was he actually ever considered attractive when he got "on the scene", so to speak?

If you ever found his daughter Ivana attractive well then she came from ...

You mix an average male with an attractive model and something decent may come out. Plus she could afford surgeries.

Re: Physical attractiveness and intergenerational social mobility

#95

Post by Workaccount2 »

gehwartzen wrote: post #69
Workaccount2 wrote: post #11

Being someone who was both conventionally unattractive and conventionally attractive (I had a digestive disorder for years that made me terrifyingly skinny and sickly looking), I can say that the difference is astronomical. Once I figured out what was wrong with me, fixed my diet and got in shape, the way people treated me in general shifted dramatically towards positive. Rather than starting from a unreceptive low w…

Can second this. Over the last few years I fixed some hormonal, dietary, and stress issues which resulted in much clearer skin, better hair, and more toned/muscular body; taking me from average to conventionally attractive based on commentary from friends/family. There is a clear boost in first impressions generally being much more positive, my ideas being regarded more highly, and coworkers/leaders wanting to promot…

Yeah that's a whole other dimension to it. The positive feedback loop it creates.

With being unattractive, there is a metaphorical "gut punch" of sorts that you always get when meeting people. Often even from people you know. Imagine just before going on stage to give a presentation, getting yourself psyched up, and someone tells you "Your voice sounds kind of weird". It just entirely kicks you off kilter and it comes through in your talk. Being unattractive you end up getting kicked off kilter a lot. You might not even know it if its all you have ever known.

But when you are good looking? It's almost like it switches and people make themselves vulnerable to see how you evaluate them. It's your word and your actions that matter, not theirs. People just openly pour confidence into your cup.

The whole things is so bizarre logically thinking, it's so primal, so human.

Re: Physical attractiveness and intergenerational social mobility

#96

Post by orwin »

wiradikusuma wrote: post #13

There's a saying (which could be specific to my country) about men approaching women. If you're handsome it's called flirting, if you're ugly it's sexual harassment. Joking aside, I do notice that successful men (again, maybe specific to my country) tend to be attractive and they usually have an attractive and smart partner. Successful but not attractive men can still have either attractive or smart partner (or both,…

Any guy who hit on my sister without being prompted, even the 'cute' ones (which is, to be fair, a big part of gym goers), get on her 'red flag' list, that she share with her gym and box friends.

I think it's typically wishful thinking. Just act like a normal human being, it's often enough, even if you're ugly.

I've been fat from 24 to 29 years old, and obese from 26 to 28. I did not have any sex during that time (my libido was quite low tbh), but I did have a few date, maybe half a dozen?, despite being quite ugly (23 to 27 especially, I didn't took care of myself at all). I assure you I wasn't attractive. But I was a normal human being who could listen and find cues before asking someone out.

Re: Physical attractiveness and intergenerational social mobility

#97

Post by Dudester230602 »

jasode wrote: post #26
wiradikusuma wrote: post #13

There's a saying (which could be specific to my country) about men approaching women. If you're handsome it's called flirting, if you're ugly it's sexual harassment. Joking aside, I do notice that successful men (again, maybe specific to my country) tend to be attractive and they usually have an attractive and smart partner. Successful but not attractive men can still have either attractive or smart partner (or both,…

>There's a saying (which could be specific to my country) about men approaching women. If you're handsome it's called flirting, if you're ugly it's sexual harassment. There's a famous comic meme about your distinction that's regularly reposted on the internet: https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/663/485/1f8... But many women have commented that they find the "attractive" guy's compliments also unwanted.

> But many women have commented that they find the "attractive" guy's compliments also unwanted.

Pay attention to what they do, not what they say.

Re: Physical attractiveness and intergenerational social mobility

#98

Post by ejb999 »

handy2000 wrote: post #87
silexia wrote: post #60

Have you noticed that obese, unattractive women are often quite hostile and angry? These women are mistreated at a far higher rate than others, and become jaded and angry and expect each encounter to be a fight. This is probably an unpopular opinion, but I think I would far rather be any type of minority (black, native american, arab, Muslim, female) then to be ugly or fat even if I was a white male. I think there is…

Fat is not an inalienable trait though. It’s not something you are, it’s something you become. I would rather be an Arab than fat is a comical observation. In terms of being ugly… it’s a way more flexible quality than people care to admit. Being fit, successful, undergoing plastic surgery, using makeup, dressing fashionably, etc - so many ways to improve your perceived attractiveness.

mostly agree - especially with the thought that even unattractive people can become very attractive if they maintain above-average-fitness level and also groom well. This goes for men and women.

Re: Physical attractiveness and intergenerational social mobility

#99

Post by Dudester230602 »

jameane wrote: post #79
Obscurity4340 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was he actually ever considered attractive when he got "on the scene", so to speak?

I feel like age hurt him for sure. You see Donald Trump in Home Alone and he looks like an average white dude. But now he looks like a troll.

Plus, an average-looking dude in the 90s had a chance regardless.

Re: Physical attractiveness and intergenerational social mobility

#100

Post by zozbot234 »

orwin wrote: post #93
skocznymroczny wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think so. There is a growing movement on places like Instagram and Tiktok, currently it's mostly played as a joke but there are woman complaining about how they said to a guy "No" and he backed off instead of trying again. Many women want to play hard to get and want a guy to try multiple times. The problem is if an attractive guy does it then he "is confident and really wants her", but if unattractive guy do…

What? I think it's fake women saying that. My sister was raped by her boss, so maybe she is more sensitive, but she box and spend 6 hours a week at the gym (10 hours total if you count boxing), and truly attractive males hit on her daily. Any guy who hit on her without being prompted, even the 'cute' ones (which is, to be fair, a big part of gym goers), get on her 'red flag' list, that she share with her gym and box…

> Just have normal conversation, a bit of small talk, listen and pay attention, flirt a bit, only show off if it doesn't break the rhythm of the moment (better yet, don't show off at all), ask for a date without saying it's a date.

It's really hard to do this well and not be boring however. You have to do all those things and also subtly telegraph that you're somehow attracted to them and don't just want to have "a normal conversation" - mostly by 'showing off' subtly enough, not looking like you're blatantly showing off. It can be done, but plenty of guys are going to try and fail. I do suppose it's better to look excessively boring and inoffensive than to end up on their "red flag, animal, unsafe to be around. Must be avoided" list.

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