Physical attractiveness and intergenerational social mobility • Hacker News Board

Re: Physical attractiveness and intergenerational social mobility

#81

Post by kzrdude » Mon, Nov 27, 2023, 3:28 PM UTC

bertil wrote: post #38

Retr0id wrote: post #6

> physical attractiveness, assessed when individuals are around 15 years old This is weird for a bunch of reasons, the most objective being that appearance changes a lot around that age range. Seems like an odd experimental choice.

I suspect it’s the lamppost effect: the data was here, so they used that rather than a more relevant observation that would have cost a lot more money. As it’s a health-related database, I suspect it’s a photo taken to control for acne, but that’s just speculation. But definitely agree that it’s probably skewing the results a lot.

Not sure how late puberty can shift, but that seems like a confounding factor (time of start of puberty compared with time of photo).

Re: Physical attractiveness and intergenerational social mobility

#82

Post by ejb999 » Mon, Nov 27, 2023, 3:28 PM UTC

mindcandy wrote: post #34

mushufasa wrote: post #2

Interesting that the effect was stronger in males. It looks like the outcomes tracked were education, income, and occupation. I wonder if this is tracking the wrong things; e.g. women can marry into a higher wealth+prestige class without themselves needing to attain education, income, or a job.

Anecdotally, as a 6’0” moderately-attractive dude in SF: I’ve laughed at the statistically unlikely number of founders/CEOs/upper management who are not only taller than me, but also are not subtle when they use their imposing height in conversation to get everyone else to just go along with whatever BS they are spouting. Bonus giggles if they are part of the hoard with thick hair and a square jaw.

I am 6'2", very rarely not the tallest or close to the tallest people in groups I frequent - until I got invited to a c-suite meeting of the financial services executives for company I was at the time working for - I was a virtually midget in that room - first time in my life I was the 'short guy'; I found it quite humorous, and not a coincidence.

Same company, one of the smartest, friendliest and hardest working guys I knew was short (maybe 5'6" and completely bald) - he deserved to be a VP or higher imo, but never made it very far up the chain and left - also not a coincidence.

Re: Physical attractiveness and intergenerational social mobility

#83

Post by lumb63 » Mon, Nov 27, 2023, 3:29 PM UTC

smugcentrist wrote: post #46

My intuition is that reserve causality is playing a huge role in these numbers which is acknowledged by the authors: "Why physical attractiveness should matter for intergenerational social mobility is an underexplored research question. Theoretical links between the two are complex, and the possibility of reverse causation cannot be ruled out. Prosperous economic conditions likely allow individuals to improve and mai…

It seems likely that there’s a common connection here between physical attractiveness and success and some third factor. For example, someone who is a harder worker or a perfectionist likely tries harder in all areas of their lives, of which career and physical appearance are just two outward manifestations. Someone who has a downtrodden mindset is unlikely to meet success in any dimension, which again includes physical appearance and career success.

Re: Physical attractiveness and intergenerational social mobility

#84

Post by jjj123 » Mon, Nov 27, 2023, 3:29 PM UTC

leidenfrost wrote: post #55

This relates to a criticism I have for woke and SJW people: Do they follow the same tendency? Most SJW people I know tend to be critical of the idea of a beauty standard at all, which is an interesting initiative if they can actually pull it off. And I do agree that it would be nice to stop being biased towards conventionally attractive people. Then, with that logic, we should be seeing "woke couples" who don't follo…

I don’t know if you get it. Just because someone isn’t stereotypically attractive doesn’t mean they aren’t hot in some other way.

I’m close to conventionally attractive but my type is shorter, overweight bearded guys (balding optional). There is no virtue signaling here, or “being attracted to what’s on the inside”. It’s still attraction, it just falls out of the standards set by men’s health magazine or w/e.

That’s what “woke” people are talking about when they say there’s not an objective 1-10 scale for attractiveness. We all have different types.

Re: Physical attractiveness and intergenerational social mobility

#85

Post by Obscurity4340 » Mon, Nov 27, 2023, 3:33 PM UTC

jameane wrote: post #79

Obscurity4340 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was he actually ever considered attractive when he got "on the scene", so to speak?

I feel like age hurt him for sure. You see Donald Trump in Home Alone and he looks like an average white dude. But now he looks like a troll.

What's the deal with the orange? When do you think that became "a thing" and why do people do it? Its beyond repulsive as a similarly fair person...

Re: Physical attractiveness and intergenerational social mobility

#86

Post by seydor » Mon, Nov 27, 2023, 3:34 PM UTC

paul7986 wrote: post #71

Physical attractiveness is gold ... you're life more then likely will be an easier road. You have the opportunity to experience the many positives life has to offer (more frequently too) as they are easily obtained and or they just fall at your feet. I.e. dating apps you have tons of choice .. you do not ever have to be alone... you post pics on social media and get tons of likes.. you post pics of you and the beauti…

> I.e. dating apps you have tons of choice .. you do not ever have to be alone... you post pics on social media and get tons of likes.

I could agree with those, but those are a rather limited part of life. They may help us, "the pretty ones" to feel good, but it takes more for someone to be considered successful generally.

> you use it to climb the professional ladder.

I think this is way overrated and lots of pretty girls end up disappointed or disappointing people, thus the meme of the dumb blonde.

the world is different today than it was in the 80s. I m not sure past performance is indicative of future results

Re: Physical attractiveness and intergenerational social mobility

#87

Post by handy2000 » Mon, Nov 27, 2023, 3:36 PM UTC

silexia wrote: post #60

Have you noticed that obese, unattractive women are often quite hostile and angry? These women are mistreated at a far higher rate than others, and become jaded and angry and expect each encounter to be a fight. This is probably an unpopular opinion, but I think I would far rather be any type of minority (black, native american, arab, Muslim, female) then to be ugly or fat even if I was a white male. I think there is…

Fat is not an inalienable trait though. It’s not something you are, it’s something you become. I would rather be an Arab than fat is a comical observation.

In terms of being ugly… it’s a way more flexible quality than people care to admit. Being fit, successful, undergoing plastic surgery, using makeup, dressing fashionably, etc - so many ways to improve your perceived attractiveness.

Re: Physical attractiveness and intergenerational social mobility

#88

Post by avgcorrection » Mon, Nov 27, 2023, 3:37 PM UTC

Workaccount2 wrote: post #11

Being someone who was both conventionally unattractive and conventionally attractive (I had a digestive disorder for years that made me terrifyingly skinny and sickly looking), I can say that the difference is astronomical. Once I figured out what was wrong with me, fixed my diet and got in shape, the way people treated me in general shifted dramatically towards positive. Rather than starting from a unreceptive low w…

I just open these threads to see if the top comment is “Attractive person here, can confirm”.

Re: Physical attractiveness and intergenerational social mobility

#89

Post by TheMagicHorsey » Mon, Nov 27, 2023, 3:38 PM UTC

My wife had a roommate when she was younger who lost over 100 pounds over the course of two years. The woman went from being just average-looking to quite conventionally beautiful. It was almost comical to see her completely confused by the new behavior of men in her presence. This happened in her mid-twenties, so she had already spent a quarter of her life being unattractive before she was suddenly deemed marketable in the dating market.

The unfortunate thing is that she did not learn about the insincerity of men who are in the pursuit of sex when she was younger (because she was not really pursued ever) and so she was quite blindsided by it in her twenties and got into some relationships which were not particularly healthy.

But she managed alright and now in her late thirties she seems to be quite well adjusted and happy (but still single). Her career has also done quite well.

She sometimes jokes with us that had she known the advantages of beauty she would have shed the weight decades earlier. But she was from a very liberal and accommodating family that always told her that people will be judged on the content of her character and not their appearances ... and it took some time to realize the world is not that way.

Re: Physical attractiveness and intergenerational social mobility

#90

Post by zozbot234 » Mon, Nov 27, 2023, 3:38 PM UTC

skocznymroczny wrote: post #75

Spivak wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has gotta be one of my favorite parts of HN, it's an odd glimpse into how men view the world. You've got it backwards. In both cases what makes it harassment is continuing to push when it's unwanted. Why you seem to see a difference in results based on attractiveness is because your average guy can't take a hint no matter how attractive they are. So "success" becomes literally stochastic because guys never back…

I don't think so. There is a growing movement on places like Instagram and Tiktok, currently it's mostly played as a joke but there are woman complaining about how they said to a guy "No" and he backed off instead of trying again. Many women want to play hard to get and want a guy to try multiple times. The problem is if an attractive guy does it then he "is confident and really wants her", but if unattractive guy do…

You can play this to your benefit, though. If you back off confidently enough, it creates ambiguity making it look like you've got no time for "hard-to-get" games. Which is good for you if everyone else is stuck in the "won't take no for an answer, must try again" status quo.